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suggestions on new paring knife

8K views 63 replies 8 participants last post by  foody518 
#1 · (Edited)
I'm a novice home cook who just got into buying some new knives. My first real knife purchase was the tojiro dp gyuto which is great. This knife is huge however. I have a small vic paring knife (cheap) but it just wont hold an edge that long and I havent invested in a good set of sharpening stones yet. I plan to.

I need a new, decent paring knife that will hold an edge longer than the vic. I will be using the knife to chop small vegetables, herbs, etc. I am considering this Mac.

can anyone comment on this knife? Also, what is the differences between the "pro", "professional", and "superior" lines?

http://www.chefknivestogo.com/macprpakn5.html

Chef knives has this "superior" mac on sale, but it has some weird star cutout at the top - http://www.chefknivestogo.com/macknsu5inut.htmlI'm a noob but it makes me think about the knife being weaker there and subject to chiping.

Any difference between the Mac and this Fuji? http://www.chefknivestogo.com/fufkmpe12.html

I see that most of the japanese style knives have these rounded or round/square handles. I've never held one - are they decent to hold?

http://www.chefknivestogo.com/mamipe12.html
 
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#3 ·
Are you contacting the board much with your paring knife usage?
I would probably go stainless, or at least make sure to have a stainless paring knife

Pro and professional should be the same

I believe the hole is for the knife to be able to be hung up on a nail or something of the like in kitchens. If you sharpen up to that...you're not going to be using the knife on the board well at that point anyways.

Mac and Fujiwara FKM use different steels.

I don't use a petty or parer all that much, but so long as you have some grip flexibility the wa-handles are fine. Plenty of people use them, after all

Why not go Tojiro again?

How much knuckle clearance do you want for chopping?
 
#6 ·
The Tojiro ITK 150 petty is a really sweet (and tall) knife albeit fully reactive. If you can handle that it's one of the best bangs for the buck IMO.
what do you mean by reactive?
Are you contacting the board much with your paring knife usage?
I would probably go stainless, or at least make sure to have a stainless paring knife

Pro and professional should be the same

I believe the hole is for the knife to be able to be hung up on a nail or something of the like in kitchens. If you sharpen up to that...you're not going to be using the knife on the board well at that point anyways.

Mac and Fujiwara FKM use different steels.

I don't use a petty or parer all that much, but so long as you have some grip flexibility the wa-handles are fine. Plenty of people use them, after all

Why not go Tojiro again?

How much knuckle clearance do you want for chopping?
thats a good point i didnt think about - knuckle clearance.I guess just something a bit smaller than what i have length wise.

Question. Is a smaller cleaver overkill for chopping onions and carrots ?
 
#9 · (Edited)
Frankly if you really feel your Tojiro chefs is too big for these on the board small chopping tasks, then maybe consider a small santoku or nakiri so you've got some height for chopping

White 2 and Blue 2 are some of Hitachi's high quality carbon steels (non stainless). If I recall correctly the Tojiro ITK as well as the Masakage Mizu are clad in soft iron which will also be reactive. Given what seems like your lack of familiarity with this I might hold off on getting a carbon steel knife for now, especially if this is going to see use on things like citrus, onions, and tomatoes
 
#10 ·
I was looking at the santoku's but I read some comments by BDL (i think thats his nickname on here) who said they were basically junk because they take away from learning proper knife skills by using a traditional chef's knife.

Not sure If i interpreted his comments correctly but thats what I took away from it.
 
#11 ·
They can be considered redundant. Between a decent petty and gyuto you should be covered for typical board work. I do herbs and aromatics most commonly with a 240mm gyuto. But with you feeling like your Tojiro is huge I'm wondering what might be a good adjustment. Do you pinch grip?
 
#13 ·
can you comment or link me to some information regarding the difference between vg10 and the white #2 steel?  Is the White #2 steel going to hold an edge like the vg10?

The black matte finish on the Tojiro Shirogami ITK 150mm petty,  would i need to scrub this off before use?

The bluing of the outer steel, any idea if Tojiro does this by a chemical reaction, I think it can also be done by using heat. Maybe a heat gun?
 
#14 ·
They are about as different as you can get.  VG-10 is stainless and difficult to de burr.    White steel is carbon and the easiest steel to sharpen.  

Edge retention is up to so many factors.  I'll tell you that it literally takes less than 30 seconds, maybe 2 strokes per side, to restore my white steel knives to working condition.
 
#15 ·
If you scrub off the black finish, be very vigilant about keeping the blade dry and rust free

I don't know about the Tojiro ITK specifically, but my kurouchi finished knives aren't shredding into the food. They're only abrading off when I hit it with the stones.
 
#16 ·
If you scrub off the black finish, be very vigilant about keeping the blade dry and rust free

I don't know about the Tojiro ITK specifically, but my kurouchi finished knives aren't shredding into the food. They're only abrading off when I hit it with the stones.
the kurouchi are carbon steel knives also? Just to make sure I understand what you are saying - do you mean that your carbon steel knife when sharpened is not that sharp? Did I read that correctly?

I guess I would be less inclinded to want to take off the black finish if I knew what it was -- and how likely it would be for it to come off into whatever im cutting.
 
#17 ·
Kurouchi is roughly blacksmith finish or forge finish. I was referring to my knives (see profile picture) that also have Kurouchi and are carbon steel core with soft iron cladding, and commenting on the resilience of that finish (not coming off on food, only when I hit that area while sharpening/thinning), should have clarified. Nothing about edge quality which is determined by the steel at the actual cutting edge.

I would dig around the web if there's any commentary on how durable the ITK finish is. It looks rather thin and like a film.
 
#18 ·
Kurouchi is roughly blacksmith finish or forge finish. I was referring to my knives (see profile picture) that also have Kurouchi and are carbon steel core with soft iron cladding, and commenting on the resilience of that finish (not coming off on food, only when I hit that area while sharpening/thinning), should have clarified. Nothing about edge quality which is determined by the steel at the actual cutting edge.

I would dig around the web if there's any commentary on how durable the ITK finish is. It looks rather thin and like a film.
sorry im not good with the terminology, thank you for clarifying

I assume that black colored, blacksmith finish (laquer i here they call it sometimes) is just to prevent the steel from oxidixing and rusting?
 
#19 ·
It is not the same as lacquer, though some knives will also have a clear-ish lacquer film on them as well. I took that off with a cotton pad and some acetone. For the ITK I can't personally say whether it does or not, but whenever I read about a cheap carbon knife with cheap soft iron cladding and some reviewer says it's not very reactive, it makes me think the knife's got a lacquer on it the reviewer hasn't yet been taken off (or otherwise it gradually comes off through abrasion and use).

The kurouchi finish inhibits oxidation and rust though I don't think absolutely. Still going to need good maintenance habits.
 
#23 ·
I don't think SG2 has been mentioned so far in this thread?

White 2 is probably less brittle of a steel than most the steels we tend to start talking about with J-knives.

VG-10 can take extra diligence and tenacity to fully remove burrs, and generally stainless steels take longer to abrade than carbons. It has a reputation for being maybe not so beginner friendly, because if you're not getting a burr free edge you're really not maximizing the perks of getting a better steel. You might also be limited in how acute the edge angle can be to still hold relatively well.
 
#24 ·
if i understand correctly, that makes sense. vg10 is a 'harder' steel and is therefor 'harder' to sharpen.  Alton brown seems to say that the structure and bond of the alloys in the steel of vg10, he references shun knives, are more tighly held together and are superior.

Ive read that white # 2 can be sharper than vg10 --- or at least easier to sharpen -- which tells me that the steel itself is softer, and wont hold an edge as long. The harder steel, vg10, I would have to guess can get as sharp with more work, but should hold that edge longer.

Are there any benefits to purchasing a knife that is white #2 or sg 2 compared to vg10? I havent found that argument yet.
 
#25 · (Edited)
http://www.japanesechefsknife.com/InformationAboutSteels.html

this has been very helpful for anyone interested

it seems that my arguement is basically stainless vs carbon knives. VG10 being one of the best for stainless, im not sure what the best is for carbon.

It looks like, after looking at this links, that blue #2 is a better steel alloy than white #2. Im guessing its more expensive also. But I still dont get why I would choose a blue #2 steel over vg10.
 
#26 · (Edited)
VG-10 does not tend to be harder than white #2 . That has to do with heat treating and other intentional actions done to the steels.

I would ignore Alton Brown for now...he's vastly oversimplying and talking to an audience that largely knows and cares little to nothing about material properties. And maybe also shilling like mad.

All VG-10 is is a good alloy steel, with enough chromium to be called stainless. Those alloying elements are going to lead to grain structure size and distribution differences from a fine grained, minimal alloy steel like white 2. It won't support as keen an edge. Depending on heat treat can be 'chippy'. Takes longer to sharpen as most stainless does due at least in part to the abrasion resistance of its carbides, which come from the fact that it's a higher alloy steel. Takes more care and diligence to sharpen to a clean edge. I don't mind because I got into knives and sharpening for this to be a very involved and consuming hobby, but I'm not you.

Did you read Millionsknives above? Sharpening/touching up is blazing fast, a breeze, edge keenness is really second to none. Patinas are cool (though rust is not)

You seem apprehensive enough about getting into sharpening that having an easier to sharpen than VG-10 steel would be worth looking into....but they tend to require some more active maintenance and care. 

Also,

1. You should get your stones fairly soon

2. Do you pinch grip? I suggested a santoku or nakiri since you feel the Tojiro is too big for veg chopping but then you brought up an old thread about BDL's comments on the matter. If you DO pinch grip and feel like you've given yourself enough time to get used to the Tojiro, yet still don't feel comfortable with your gyuto and you are a good height relative to your counter, then I think maybe ignoring the point about technique and such might be a consideration and to look into a less versatile but small technique/learning curve knife like that (do you take that point about underdeveloped technique so personally that you don't want to consider the other knives even while you are still not feeling comfortable with your current knife which is more versatile?). If a petty, you'll want to go longer/taller but I have no clue what your current situation and preferences are with knuckle clearance.

And - Jon Broida has a good video and blog post somewhere about steel types, mentioning some stainless, carbons, and briefly, PM steels.
 
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