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looking for my first carbon knife

post #1 of 20
Thread Starter 
OK guys I'm right handed and mostly prefer lighter blades , loved the takamura r2, still own and use I just fancy a change , never owned a carbon blade , and been looking at around £100-150 range , but cheaper is fine, so I can get into the habit of looking after them.

Also why do people force a patina on their knifes, what does this process do , in terms of preventing rust, I always thought you put a light coating of oil, and keep it in its protective case you normally get with them?

Also I have my own stone set , so obviously I will be using stones to maintain the knife. I've seen slot of comments about tojiro dp, never used them, and I'd like something that looks more traditional to the Japanese knifes , wooden octagon handles ect. Thanks guys , can't wait to see what you all post.
Edited by pricey - 6/6/16 at 5:45pm
post #2 of 20
Thread Starter 
And I'm in UK , so online sources preferred.
post #3 of 20

Have a look at these:

 

http://www.knivesandstones.com/blue-2-damascus/

http://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/itinomonn/

http://www.japanesechefsknife.com/FurinkazanKurouchiSeries.html#FuRinKaZanKurouchi

http://www.japanesechefsknife.com/BlueMoonBlueSteelWaSeries.html#BlueMoon

 

 

Patina limits the reactivity. Iron will always oxidize either to rust or patina. There is no way around it.   Patina is more stable.  Rust is not and if you have rust it will grow to more rust.  That's why we prefer patina.

 

You could put a drop of Tsubaki oil on your knife and spread it around with a towel but this is mostly for storage.  For a daily driver knife, you're not going to clean and re oil every time you use it. 

 

Just use it naturally and always clean and dry after your cuts.  Immediately.  Not after 5 minutes.  Right when you are done.

 

Knife sleeves actually retain moisture in a bad way.   I would stick to a saya or put it on the wall on a magnet, especially in the summer

post #4 of 20
Or if you're looking for a mono-steel with a Western handle: Misono Swedish Carbon and Fujiwara Fkh with japanesechefsknife.com
or Robert Herders 1922 23cm chef's, with knivesandtools.co.uk.
The Herders aren't too reactive. With the others you better force a patina by leaving the blade dirty for while before cleaning it, except for the edge. By rinsing with very hot water a patina will develop and protect the blade against common rust. In fact, the patina is a further oxidation of rust. But if you don't take any action, rust will develop and never reach the patina stade. Am I clear??
Edited by Benuser - 6/6/16 at 11:17am
post #5 of 20

If you've got a Takamura R2 then no need to look at the Tojiro DP line.

 

As far as cleaning goes, hot water + soap and wipe thoroughly with towel, leaving no water trails or droplets. Leave out in the open for a few minutes so that the residual water on the knife has a chance to evaporate before storing anywhere, especially within an enclosed area (like a sleeve/sheath or drawer).

 

The Gesshin Uraku White #2 is in your price range as well, though I am unknowledgeable about JKI and international shipping/customs. Kurouchi finish, octagonal handle.

 

Masakage Mizu is in this price range as well on Knifewear (canadian retailer) though again international shipping may be a problem.

 

Best online vendors for you would be the ones mentioned in the above posts. There were a few interesting things I saw some weeks ago on ebay that might have fit the bill but the listings aren't up now.

post #6 of 20

I absolutely love using my Itinomonn Kasumi 240mm gyuto in stainless clad V2 - it's almost perfect in every way and I've owned a lot of high end knives by some of the best makers around.

post #7 of 20
Thread Starter 

when looking at carbon blades, you have 4 main types that are sold blue and white and put into #1 #2 category, long question short, which is better, in your own opinions. from what im reading white #2 they say are more pure and a bit harder, how does this affect how chippy the blade is , we use plastic boards in work , so they are not exactly great for my knifes as it is,  

ive seen one knife that is beautiful , http://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/munetoshi-kurouchi-gyuto-210mm/

 but i think if i was to pick one of these id pick the 240, just for ease of use when on root veg ect.

i like the  price on the intonomonn kasumi, cladding v2 hmm im not familliar with v2 steel , is it much fun to work with, re sharpen ect, while im at it , im also in need of a ceramic rod, for honing, for while at work rather than carrying my stones with me , or would i be better sticking to the stones?

post #8 of 20

Mike, Millions and others have more experience with it but just the technicals - V2 is a clean low alloy steel, better edge retention than white#2, and whereas white2 can theoretically take a keener edge few would know the difference.

 

As far as patina - The only carbon I have that has seen food use by me right now is a Herder 80mm parer.  Cutting lemon peel put a slight bluish patina on it, and never any residue on the lemon.  But when I cut a mango it instantly turned the blade dark blue-grey, leaving the typical dark metal residue on the mango in the process.  Next mango I cut was shinny clean.

 

So hey, I have to wonder in my limited experience if mango has greater "patina-power" than other fruits?

post #9 of 20

@pricey

 

Good find!  I forgot about that one it's pretty new.  So the story is that is the same smith that makes the Itinomonn butcher knife I love  (I bought a backup i love it so much...).  That is the only knife he makes in the itinomon line.  His gyutos look nice and thin behind they edge so they should perform well.

 

V2 in my experience sharpens a lot like white steel, i.e. you can sharpen it very fast on stones.  Edge retention a little better than white steel.  I don't really know how to measure that but I've used both and that's my experience.

 

Knives at this hardness I find it is easy to chip them on hones, even ceramic ones, even with perfect technique and very light pressure.  They just really do not like any pressure from the side.  Up and down is cool, back and forth is okay.  Side pressure = instant chipping.  I wrote a review on the Jende ceramic hone a few months ago and tested everything from stainless to virgin carbon steel to V2. My recommendation is for anything over 59 HRC or so stay off the hones.  V2 should last you a shift or two at least and then a few stropping strokes on a 5k or 6k stone will bring it back to new.  You might only need to really sharpen every few weeks.  If you have multiple knives you don't even need to leave a stone at work, just bring a backup.  

 

If you get it let us know, I would love to hear how it performs and it's very attractive for the price.

post #10 of 20

I touch mine up with a Mac ceramic rod followed by a run through a hard felt block.  Takefu V2 is very, much like Hitachi white #2 in every respect.  I do think it has better edge retention at least in my experience as I'm using one knife of each concurrently.  Not for nothing, but the Tojiro ITK KU knives in #3 shirogami are excellent blades for the buck, but need some refinement to the OOTB edge.  Well worth the effort IMHO.

post #11 of 20
Thread Starter 

ok cool, it does look very nice, 

now this is probably a big no, and i feel someone yelling at their pc coming on, i like to use marker , when sharpening , as i learned from jni , on carbon steel is this a bad idea, or should this be ok , i dont think there is any acidity from the markers that could affect the blade.

post #12 of 20

No problem.  If you dont' sharpen it all off just take it off with acetone

post #13 of 20
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike9 View Post
 

I touch mine up with a Mac ceramic rod followed by a run through a hard felt block.  Takefu V2 is very, much like Hitachi white #2 in every respect.  I do think it has better edge retention at least in my experience as I'm using one knife of each concurrently.  Not for nothing, but the Tojiro ITK KU knives in #3 shirogami are excellent blades for the buck, but need some refinement to the OOTB edge.  Well worth the effort IMHO.

hard felt block?

post #14 of 20

You can draw your blade through a block of hard felt so that it catches the burr left on the edge.

 

Rubbing alcohol/isopropyl alcohol also works for getting rid of marker (I use Sharpie) just fine.

post #15 of 20
Thread Starter 

ah felt ok now i get what you mean, ok cool ill take note of that , useful for at work . i think im more or less done then ill look into buying this knife when im back from my holiday, one last point, the best option for the length of the blade is the 240 over the 210? personal preference? 

post #16 of 20

Probably personal preference, but your Takamura R2 I'm guessing is a 210, right? Go 240 for some extra length and also diversity ;)

post #17 of 20

Hey @pricey i misread your budget!  £100-150 range is even more in USD

 

Have you seen these http://www.knivesandstones.com/syousin-chiku/

post #18 of 20
I should have added that carbon steel and plastic boards don't go very well together. Best result so far with Aogami Super with a very conservative edge, and for non-carbons, SLD and, surprisingly, Krupp's 4116 by Wüsthof.
post #19 of 20

True but often thats the only option in a pro kitchen.  I recommend going to either sani tuff board http://www.amazon.com/Sani-Tuff-Cutting-Board-Thick-Wx12/dp/B00B693VDM  or the softer rubber kinds the sushi places use

post #20 of 20

Our restaurant uses Sani and we are very happy with them

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