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New knife For everyday use as a chef

post #1 of 26
Thread Starter 

Hello everyone! 

I want first of all apologise as english is not my mother tongue you will find many mistakes in my writing ,I will try my best tho :)

 Im  looking forward to buy new knifes toward the end of the summer ,

Im 22 and Ive been a chef for about 6 years  (already can't believe it ) but alway had knife provide by my workplace and just a  good average knife for my home cooking.

Ive had a look on the internet ,Im not really convince about the shun one a dont think is value for money also a chef where im working Has a global set with is good but I dont really like full set to be honest and again I think you can get better for that money. Im will to Buy to knife  for everyday chopping and one for fish meat slicing and a stone or two to got with 

 

 

 

LOCATION
Uk

 

KNIFE TYPE
What type of knife are you interested in?
Gyuto or Santoku,and a smaller  one for fish and meat  dont the english term for it 

 

Are you right or left handed?
Right handed.

 

Are you interested in a Western handle  or Japanese handle?
As a french chef I've been though to use western handle but Im willing to try the japanese one to be honest 

 

What length of knife (blade) are you interested in?
 

 

Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no).

Yes 

What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife?

200£ 400 £ wich is about 300 600 $ i guess .  include stone 

 

KNIFE USE:

everyday use 
Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment?
professional for certain task but mainly home As I can still use the knife available at my work place for the daily chopping  in order to preserve mine 

 

What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for?

Mostly vegetable ,fish ,meat ,no bone cutting 

 

What knife, if any, are you replacing?

.

 

Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use?
No really 

 

What cutting motions do you primarily use?
rock chop , or slide all the way 

 

What improvements do you want from your current knife?
Sharpness no only out of the box  but in the future also ,I know i will  have to sharp it and take great care of it  and  i want knifes that i can keep for the next 5 10 years to come 

 

Better aesthetics?
I like the traditional look to be honest appart from knife I have always like japaneese culture as a whole

KNIFE MAINTENANCE:

 


Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board?

Wood at home /Synthetic at work if their is any advise on the best board to use Im ready to listen to them ;)

Do you sharpen your own knives? (Yes or no.)

Yes  but not with the stone but  friend can teach me 

If not, are you interested in learning how to sharpen your knives? (Yes or no.)

Yes.

 

Are you interested in purchasing sharpening products for your knives? (Yes or no.)
Yes. 

SELECTION (in no particular order)  

 

I thanks you for your help if you have any question please feel free to ask I still have 2 month before buying them but when i invest money I want to make sure im doing the right move even tho there no perfect knife or perfect car it's everyone opinion but hopefully we will find something .

post #2 of 26
I havent tried enough knives to make a real suggestion for you...personally, i purchased some knives from Watanabe in japan and i like them a lot, but that doesnt mean theyre best for you.
Regarding cutting boards, you didnt give a budget. I love the handcrafted board i got from theboardsmith.com. if you dont want to pay for artisan work, boos boards are mass produced, and someone recently posted about a deal on ebay for some cheaper boards with some visual defects. It all depends on how much you want to pay for someones time...and since youre in europe, importing will probably be very expensive. You should try japanesenaturalstones.com ...its in the eu and will probably be cheapest for you. Most people will extol the virtues of end-grain boards, whichever maker you choose.
Edited by Pirendeus - 7/8/16 at 7:52am
post #3 of 26
Does anybody use end grain at work? I never would. Get a sani tuff rubber board for work. End grain is for home.
post #4 of 26
Nylon. Always. Toss it in the dishwasher, and the deed is done. When it gets scarred, run it through a thickness planer and get another year's worth of life out of it. When you have to replace it, its a lot cheaper than all-wood boards.
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...."This whole reality thing is really not what I expected it would be"......
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post #5 of 26
Yes---i was mostly suggesing a wooden board for use at home. At work in a pro environment is a different scenario.
Plastic is cheaper, but not as good as wood for knives, anti-bacterial properties, environment, or aesthetics. You get what you pay for.
Edited by Pirendeus - 7/8/16 at 10:02am
post #6 of 26
Ahh... "the anti bacterial properties of wood" schtick should carrybthecsam weight as "Nigerian investment opportunity".......

Lemme explain

Last month the health inspector pays a vsit. She casually asks me what kind of hand soap I have in my dispensor. I tell her regular. Wth a blank face and neutral voice she asks why. I tell her anti bacterial soap gives my employees a false sense of security and they tend to take greater risks. She beams at me, and sighs, finally an operator who has his head on straight.

Yes, wood has anti bacteria properties, and there are or two legitimate Nigerian schemes. But wood is porous, and composed of hollow vessels. What happens whe these vessels are plugged up with fats, minerals, salts, and the like? Wood is not inert, it reacts to humidity and temerature change, it also requires more care to sanitize than with inert materials.

As an operator, my major concern is to avoid any contamintion, including cross contamination, the longetivity of a knife's edge is waaaaay down the list. My next concern is how easy and how definate sanitizing of my tools are. A quick toss in the dishwasher for a cutting board is fairly reliable and idiot proof.

Like Millions says, keep your wood boards for home.

Hope this provides some insight....
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post #7 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by foodpump View Post

Ahh... "the anti bacterial properties of wood" schtick should carrybthecsam weight as "Nigerian investment opportunity".......

Lemme explain

Last month the health inspector pays a vsit. She casually asks me what kind of hand soap I have in my dispensor. I tell her regular. Wth a blank face and neutral voice she asks why. I tell her anti bacterial soap gives my employees a false sense of security and they tend to take greater risks. She beams at me, and sighs, finally an operator who has his head on straight.

Yes, wood has anti bacteria properties, and there are or two legitimate Nigerian schemes. But wood is porous, and composed of hollow vessels. What happens whe these vessels are plugged up with fats, minerals, salts, and the like? Wood is not inert, it reacts to humidity and temerature change, it also requires more care to sanitize than with inert materials.

As an operator, my major concern is to avoid any contamintion, including cross contamination, the longetivity of a knife's edge is waaaaay down the list. My next concern is how easy and how definate sanitizing of my tools are. A quick toss in the dishwasher for a cutting board is fairly reliable and idiot proof.

Like Millions says, keep your wood boards for home.

Hope this provides some insight....

Foodpump, your professional insight is appreciated...as I clarified in my post, my recommendation for a wood cutting board is for home use, not a professional setting. I leave it to those like yourself with experience in a restaurant kitchen to know what works best for a board there, and the safety regulations thereof.

However, your anecdote isn't quite so applicable when other variables are involved. Studies from faculty at UC Davis have shown that wood boards do indeed have antibacterial properties. Please reference the overview of the clinical report at http://faculty.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/faculty/docliver/Research/cuttingboard.htm and note specifically that plastic cutting boards, once cuts and scrapes develop, are far more likely to harbor bacteria than wooden boards. Obviously, both types of boards can be sanitized (and plastic can go in the dishwasher whereas wood can not), but otherwise, wood is a superior board for avoiding contamination. Do you have any links to scientific studies that indicate otherwise?

post #8 of 26
Well of course a nylon board will harbour bacteria if it has deep cuts and scrapes. This is why you run it through a thickness planer before deep scarring occurs. This is why many Sushi Chefs "iron"their nylon boards with a clothes iron to remove scarring, and this is why companiies like Matfer in France offer a tool that resembles a woodworkers smoothing plane (albeit using disposable razors) to smooth out cutting boards. And finally, this is one of the virtues of cheaper nylon board, you can throw it out, or recycle it if it becomes to scarred use. Granted, you can do thevsame with wood boards, but they are much more expensive.

Yet, in all of your posts, you have not described the procedure for sanitizing a wood board. Say you just spent an hour cleaning pork tenders, or boning out chicken. Do you just give the board a wipe with a paper towel, make the sign of the cross over your chest, and pronounce it sanitized?

In all honesty, don't you think there are a finite number of times that wood magically kills bacteria before the surface gets saturated with oils, salts, and minerals, preventing bacteria from being destroyed by the magical properties?

But even more importantly, HOW is bacteria killed? Wood itself destroys bacteria? How can that be if wood was part of living tree? Bacteria need moisture, food, and warmth to multiply, remove one of these elements and you can control the growth of bacteria.

Which one?

Wood is porous, so moisture can be absorbed. Saturate the top layer of wood with oils or salts, and this ability is removed. Doesn't matter what's under the first 1/8" of that surface, if the surface can't absorb moisture, bacteria can multiply if allowed.

I don't like my food tasting like quats or bleach, so the most practical method to sanitize is with high heat. Wood won't tolerate this, not over a repeated cycle.

So promise me you won't prepare high protein items on a wood cutting board, give the board a wipe with your shirttail, and pronounce it sanitized, m'kay?
...."This whole reality thing is really not what I expected it would be"......
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post #9 of 26
Foodpump, the clincal study that I linked answered all the questions that you keep asking. You read the research outline, right?

Also, your post didnt contain any links to scientific research or experiments. Do you have any facts to support your position, or do you believe your opinions are more informed than quantifiable and repeatable testing from a research university using scientific equipment?
post #10 of 26
No, no, no.

WE want YOU to tell US how YOU would sanitize a wood cutting board that had, say, raw salmon filleted on it.

We're all professionals here. If any of us gets a case of food borne illness at our workplace, its game over. Doesn't matter how shiny or sharp your knife is.
...."This whole reality thing is really not what I expected it would be"......
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...."This whole reality thing is really not what I expected it would be"......
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post #11 of 26
Shall I assume that your continued lack of links to scientific studies indicates you are simply relying on your uneducated opinion in this matter? Have you read the research outline that I linked?

I'll give a detailed sanitization explanation when I'm at a computer and can type better.
post #12 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pirendeus View Post

Shall I assume that your continued lack of links to scientific studies indicates you are simply relying on your uneducated opinion in this matter? Have you read the research outline that I linked?

I'll give a detailed sanitization explanation when I'm at a computer and can type better.

I think you are incorrect thinking foodpump is uneducated.  I also think you are not listening to what foodpump is saying.  I did read the article you linked.  I would not use any board that is not NSF approved.  Both wood and plastic boards can be certified.  What is your educational level?  Have you special training education in food safety? Can you spell sanitation?

post #13 of 26
F
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pirendeus View Post

Shall I assume that your continued lack of links to scientific studies indicates you are simply relying on your uneducated opinion in this matter? Have you read the research outline that I linked?

I'll give a detailed sanitization explanation when I'm at a computer and can type better.



You're squirming, aren't you?

You can type out snarky response well enough, but you can't tell us how you would sanitize a wood cutting board?
You're fun to play with!
...."This whole reality thing is really not what I expected it would be"......
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...."This whole reality thing is really not what I expected it would be"......
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post #14 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by foodpump View Post

F
You're squirming, aren't you?

You can type out snarky response well enough, but you can't tell us how you would sanitize a wood cutting board?
You're fun to play with!
So you dont have any research or scientific studies to validate your opinion?
post #15 of 26
Let me guess, you're at your home computer now, and this is the response you promised?

The question was, how would YOU sanitize a wood cutting board that had high protein items processed on it?

You've avoided this question enough for everyone to draw their own conclusions about you, and your opinions.
...."This whole reality thing is really not what I expected it would be"......
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...."This whole reality thing is really not what I expected it would be"......
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post #16 of 26
So you have no scientific evidence to support your opinion?
post #17 of 26
Nicko or Phatch:

I think its about time to wrap this one up. The last thing I want is a case of food poisoning, and the cook explaining that he didn't need to sanitize a cutting board because he read somewhere on the internet that you didn't have to.
...."This whole reality thing is really not what I expected it would be"......
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...."This whole reality thing is really not what I expected it would be"......
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post #18 of 26
You may want to slow your roll, FP... Nobody said that wood boards don't need to be sanitized. There are enough caveats in the discussion to indicate wood boards are primarily applicable as home use rather than commercial. Many home users of wood boards quite successfully have avoided food poisoning by washing with hot water and dish washing soap/detergent... As the UC Davis paper recommends. They did not invent that method but simply repeating what their grandma taught them... And her grandma before her.
post #19 of 26
Thanks Brian, finally someone who will post on this site what procedures should be taken to sanitize a wood board.
...."This whole reality thing is really not what I expected it would be"......
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...."This whole reality thing is really not what I expected it would be"......
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post #20 of 26
Now, let us come back to the original poster. Living in the UK, looking for a stainless blade and stones. Have Naniwa Professional with knivesandtools.co.uk, I would say 800 and 3k.
As for the knife look at
http://japanesechefsknife.com/DeepImpactAogamiSuperSeries.html#DeepImpact
No stainless, carbon core, stainless clad.
Edited by Benuser - 7/9/16 at 4:49pm
post #21 of 26
Thread Starter 


Thanks for getting back to the original post :) Theese knife seem alright and not to expensive also I dont really like the handle tho but its not the main purpose of a knife ,thanks for you help !

post #22 of 26
The micarta handle is very well made. Fit and Finish are to be compared with Misono's.
post #23 of 26

In some places to get best sanitation you have the color coded plastic/nylon boards and you use plenty but they go in the machine.

 

Knife?  I have a 4310 Forschner  that was my " all round"  for MANY years.   10" is big for a Home cook but  very handy for large scale.  Not over heavy, durable. It CAN be sharpened VER good but will not keep a super edge real long.

 

I have an 8 1/2" Wasabi Deba.  Shun makes Wasabi as an Econo brand and I have not  seen the 8 1/2 " Deba in quite a while  Usually a Deba is a single Bevel classic  Japanese style  built for HEAVY duty.   Most are 7" or less.   If there's still 8 1/2 Wasabi Debas.. Grab one.  It can quarter a chicken or split open a lobster.. EASY, but.. you CAN use it like a Chef Knife.   It does things like whacking a rack of ribs or  mincing herbs. As only one side is beveled it will sharp up quick.  However.. it's right handed. SOME  more $$ Japanese Debas can be had in "lefty".   I'm ambidextreous but used to the right to hold a knife.

 

I like to have a rather light /sharp knife.   The 10" Forschner is light compared to a hefty Heinkel .. but if you do a lot of cutting.. a Smaller 6-7" is great IF.. it is really sharp.   If your shift has a LOT of knife action.. trust me.. you do NOT want excess weight.  I'd mention.....damn few people know how (or why) to use a steel.   You can do a LOT of harm.

post #24 of 26

We used to scrape and bleach wood butcher block tables.  AFAIK.....In Cali you no longer can use Wood much.  Too bad. I rather like wood boards.

post #25 of 26
The Kai Wasabi is made of the worst stainless I've ever seen. Huge accumulated carbides breaking out. To be avoided.
post #26 of 26

You can look, but you will not find too many threads where foodpump and I agree on an idea ... but THIS IS ONE OF THEM. I can't understand / don't see why anyone is arguing his points. It ain'te no freakin' rocket surgery to understand this. You don't need any "clincal study" or web-sites. Sometimes just plain old regular EXPERIENCE is proof-positive enough to shut-up arguing with a professional. THIS IS ONE OF THOSE TIMES.

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