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My wife needs knives

post #1 of 27
Thread Starter 

Hi, my wife has gotten interested in her kitchen in the last couple years, as apposed to trying to poison me everyday of our last 20 years, and has greatly improved our meals. I never go in the kitchen, although we share the food duties, as in,  she cooks, I eat it.

 

The other day she complained one of her knives was bent,,,yes,,bent. As a person who likes knives, i was curious to see what kind of knife bends. I discovered by looking in her drawers that there is not a single knife in that kitchen that i would use. I mean wallmart would not sell the junk she has without laughing!

 

I know nothing about kitchen knives. I use a wicked edge sharpener on my knives. She will not buy anything better, and made gasping sounds when we looked at prices on the internet. I need help!

 

From my short research, I think she needs a 4 or 5 inch, 8 and 10 inch chef knife, a peeler, a bread knife, a cleaver? I am very confused reading the other threads since all the names are unfamiliar to me. I assume I need to buy her a wooden cutting board too?

 

I will sharpen them on my wicked edge system, other then serrations. Yes I can make razors if I want. I would rather they did not rust since she will be using and storing them. I like quality, but not over the top costs.

 

I think somewhere at $150-200 a knife should get her quality? She will never be a pro chef and I figure she has about 25-30 years to live, without making me too mad, so they need to last. I bet this is the first thread somebody wanted help picking out knives huh? :)

 

I want knives that don't bend...

 

any suggestions?


Edited by razerface - 1/10/17 at 1:27pm
post #2 of 27
Some knives flex a little bit. Fish fillet knives certainly, but even a chef's knife I just bought has flex. If it bends you can bend it back. Lay the blade part on the counter and bend it the other way slowly.

Wicked edge is quite honestly a pain to use on larger knives. The angle may change from heel to tip and left and right side of a kitchen knife. That's a lot of adjustments to do it right.

I just reviewed this yesterday which may interest you http://www.cheftalk.com/t/91330/suisin-western-inox-210#post_553084

Also togiharu is in your price range. Gesshin uraku, gesshin stainless, or gonbei at japanese knife imports. Misono has a few stainless knives in your price range. Tanaka ginsan perhaps
post #3 of 27
Thread Starter 

i did not make a good description of the knife. The tip was curled around 180 degrees, and pointing toward the handle! I understand knives flex.

post #4 of 27
Thread Starter 
I like the togiharu, but I don't think she will. I read reviews that say the blade is too straight to rock, and i have seen her trying to practice that. Is the inox a good choice for holding edge and resisting corrosion?

Off to look at others.
post #5 of 27
Thread Starter 
The Misono does not look any more curved. They have a nice selection. I like that #534 paring knife. I could own that for myself!
post #6 of 27

btw you can find misono cheaper here http://japanesechefsknife.com/

 

None of the ones I linked have too much belly.  It is uncommon in gyutos.  The profiles typically follow more of the french chefs knife than the german chefs knife.  Most common motions are push cut down and forward, or pull cut down and back. Rocking is not optimal and can chip harder steels if you're not careful.

 

A lot of people when they switch to sharp knives with good geometry (thin behind the edge) that fly through produce with ease will change their habits.  If you had a death grip on a dull knife, you'll quickly learn that a relaxed pinch grip works better on sharp knives.  I think a similar thing happens when the knife does exactly what they want, they give up the rocking motion that is kind of a crutch.

 

If rocking is an absolute must, anything with some curve in the front will do, but it's important not to torque these knives.  With bad technique and rocking, stick to wusthof or shun.  Although they may be a bit out of budget and IMO they don't cut as well, don't hold an edge as long, and are harder to sharpen to boot.

 

About the cutting boards - doesn't have to be wood there are some great rubber and PVA options too.  I have an article coming out in a few days about the different cutting board materials and reviews of my favorite ones

post #7 of 27

How promptly will the knives be hand washed and dried?

 

Millions's suggestions are good. I would also like to add Kanetsugu Pro-M. http://japanesechefsknife.com/ProMSeries.html#ProM

 

8 and 10 inch chefs might be redundant. It's more likely than not that one will end up getting used and the other will sit around somewhere.

https://www.japaneseknifeimports.com/collections/other-products-1/products/vegetable-peeler great peeler.

 

How often do y'all cut hard crusty loaves?

 

Do y'all hack through bone-in meats regularly?

post #8 of 27
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by foody518 View Post

How promptly will the knives be hand washed and dried?

Millions's suggestions are good. I would also like to add Kanetsugu Pro-M. http://japanesechefsknife.com/ProMSeries.html#ProM

8 and 10 inch chefs might be redundant. It's more likely than not that one will end up getting used and the other will sit around somewhere.
https://www.japaneseknifeimports.com/collections/other-products-1/products/vegetable-peeler great peeler.

How often do y'all cut hard crusty loaves?

Do y'all hack through bone-in meats regularly?

Yes i have realized we need only one chef knife. She has decided on an 8 inch instead of a bigger one. We do chicken for the bone in food. I usually cut up anything i hunt with my own knives.
Are these japanese knives frail? Should i look ar german?
Edited by razerface - 1/11/17 at 7:22am
post #9 of 27
Thread Starter 
I have made a peliminary decision. I may not buy both the santoku and the gyuto, but have her look at the pics and decide which one? Let me know if it looks like a mistake to go this way. We are both complete novices in the kitchen knives.

http://www.japanesechefsknife.com/MolybdenumSeries.html#MisonoMolybdenumSteel

Misonon molybdenum
534 paring 80mm
532 petty 130mm
512 gyuto 210mm
583 santoku 160mm
696 bread 300mm
550 western deba 165mm

Also a scp-2 cleaver/chopper 110mm.... would this be better in 440c or aus-8 ?

Thanks!
post #10 of 27

I see some redundancy in your list.  Cut it down to

 

paring 80mm OR petty 130mm for small in hand stuff.  FWIW you don't need to spend money here you can get a victorinox parer for like $8 on amazon.

gyuto 210mm  OR a santoku -  my opinion is a shorter santoku will be lacking for some tasks, and the gyuto is better for more tasks

bread 300mm  -  I wouldn't spend big money on a bread knife either.  I think Tojiro DP bread knife is around $60

western deba OR a heavy cleaver for bones.  You don't need both.  

 

The only bone you need to cut through on a chicken is the backbone if you are removing it.  A meat cleaver can handle that easily.  Or poultry shears.

post #11 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by foody518 View Post

How promptly will the knives be hand washed and dried?


How often do y'all cut hard crusty loaves?

Do y'all hack through bone-in meats regularly?
post #12 of 27
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by foody518 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by foody518 View Post

How promptly will the knives be hand washed and dried?


How often do y'all cut hard crusty loaves?

Do y'all hack through bone-in meats regularly?

She says they will be taken care of if we spend that money. She bakes bread, lol,,so yes we saw thru crusty stuff. Yes we cut up chickens to eat, rabbits and squirrels too.

We have eliminated the santoku from the list. She wanted that over the gyuto, but after noting it was a taller blade, she went for the lower profile gyuto.
post #13 of 27
Thread Starter 
How do we store these knives? Butcher block? Magnetic strip?
post #14 of 27
Originally Posted by razerface View Post

How do we store these knives? Butcher block? Magnetic strip?

As long as you don't let the edges get banged up, any way you like.  Magnetic strip or stand, knife block, in-drawer separators, or individual blade guards will all work.

 

Personally, I store my knives in typical knife blocks on the counter top.

post #15 of 27
Thread Starter 
We ordered from japanesechefknives.com. They later sent us a message that the cleaver was out of stock,,and upgraded us to the higher quality cleaver for free.

Thanks for the help and links. I will get out of the way, and turn this account over to the wife for her pleasure and research on her cooking hobby.
post #16 of 27

Wow, fast purchase. Shipping speed from JCK is good. Both times I've ordered from there it's been a week or less from shipped to delivered.

Hope y'all enjoy the new toys! Keep em sharp. 

 

Edit: also, for storage options - make sure the blades are completely dry before storage


Edited by foody518 - 1/12/17 at 9:51am
post #17 of 27
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by foody518 View Post
 

Wow, fast purchase. Shipping speed from JCK is good. Both times I've ordered from there it's been a week or less from shipped to delivered.

Hope y'all enjoy the new toys! Keep em sharp. 

 

Edit: also, for storage options - make sure the blades are completely dry before storage


well it was not a hard decision since it is her first quality knives. Now the next time,,when she wants to upgrade, she should have more opinions on what she wants. As long as I got her decent starter quality blades, my job is done. Quick research on here and millionsknives recomends made it easy! If she never goes farther, I believe the Misono knives are easily good tools for her, much better then wally world, especially since she saw the pics of them and likes the looks,,before I bought them. If you saw what she was using, you would know I could have picked out knives with my eyes closed and still improved her kitchen tools. They are lower end to you guys I am sure, but to her,,she is excited about them. I am sure I will get special dinners for a while.

post #18 of 27
I see misono knives on top chef all the time. If someone calls it low end, they are a snob. What's important is your wife picked the profile because thats the shape she wants. Its a good price on a stainless knife and not too chippy or too soft. Out of the box edge is okay, but you can probably make it even better with a little sharpening. Enjoy!
post #19 of 27
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MillionsKnives View Post

I see misono knives on top chef all the time. If someone calls it low end, they are a snob. What's important is your wife picked the profile because thats the shape she wants. Its a good price on a stainless knife and not too chippy or too soft. Out of the box edge is okay, but you can probably make it even better with a little sharpening. Enjoy!

I do look forward to sharpening them. What does the double bevel 70/30 mean? Is that a 2 angle sharpening? I assume that would be included angles? I can match it if it is on the knife when it arrives.

Should i mach their angles, or do something else to them?
post #20 of 27

70/30 bevel means it is asymmetrically ground.  If you wanted to have a 30 degree inclusive angle, you would have a 21 degree bevel on one side and 9 degrees on the other.

 

Korin has some info here - they mention the 70/30 bevel near the end of this article:  http://korin.com/site/PDFs/knifesharpeningbasics.pdf


Edited by jc57 - 1/12/17 at 7:33pm
post #21 of 27

70/30 has nothing to do with the angle ratio between right and left side, it's just a description.    It's not exact at all.  

 

I sharpen something like 15-17 degrees on the left and 12-15 degrees on the right.  Never measured the exact angle nor do I care.  You can follow the bevel as they have it there or make up your own. The thing is if you go TOO far asymmetric, the knife will steer.

 

This is a good read http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/5656-Asymmetry-%E2%80%93-The-REAL-DEAL

post #22 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by MillionsKnives View Post

70/30 has nothing to do with the angle ratio between right and left side, it's just a description.    It's not exact at all.  

I sharpen something like 15-17 degrees on the left and 12-15 degrees on the right.  Never measured the exact angle nor do I care.  You can follow the bevel as they have it there or make up your own. The thing is if you go TOO far asymmetric, the knife will steer.

This is a good read http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/5656-Asymmetry-%E2%80%93-The-REAL-DEAL
That was a good thread, thanks for the link. I see my understanding was rudimentary at best. I don't own any asymmetrically ground blades myself and was going by what I had read from other sources.
post #23 of 27
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MillionsKnives View Post

70/30 has nothing to do with the angle ratio between right and left side, it's just a description.    It's not exact at all.  

I sharpen something like 15-17 degrees on the left and 12-15 degrees on the right.  Never measured the exact angle nor do I care.  You can follow the bevel as they have it there or make up your own. The thing is if you go TOO far asymmetric, the knife will steer.

This is a good read http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/5656-Asymmetry-%E2%80%93-The-REAL-DEAL

That was a long read! I think i understand. My aim will be,( in general terms),,,follow the original angles. If the knife steers right, sharpen more off the right side until it cuts straight. If it steers left, take more off the left side. I understand now what makes a left or right hand knife. I thought they were all on center like my hunting knives, but they aren't! Thanks for that link.
post #24 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by razerface View Post


I do look forward to sharpening them. What does the double bevel 70/30 mean? Is that a 2 angle sharpening? I assume that would be included angles? I can match it if it is on the knife when it arrives.

Should i mach their angles, or do something else to them?

Match their angles unless and until your wife finds them unacceptable. If you keep them good and sharp, that's very unlikely ever to happen.

post #25 of 27

My Misono Swedish is asymmetrically ground -  runs convex on the side it's made for (righty/ lefty), flat on the other blade face, and the edge also looks a bit off-center. I think the Moly series could run thinner so this effect is less pronounced. The bevels will probably show the right side larger left side smaller. Try just keeping close to how it comes to you, which will most likely be more acute on the right than the left. If your wife is not experiencing that the knife steers during her cutting tasks and the edge retention is alright, then stick to that. If it does start steering over time, make an adjustment and chime back in for help  :)

post #26 of 27
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jc57 View Post

70/30 bevel means it is asymmetrically ground.  If you wanted to have a 30 degree inclusive angle, you would have a 21 degree bevel on one side and 9 degrees on the other.

Korin has some info here - they mention the 70/30 bevel near the end of this article:

That diagram is a left handed blade, correct?
post #27 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by razerface View Post


That diagram is a left handed blade, correct?

The cross section diagram associated with the 70:30? Most likely

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