No more French Fries??? - Page 2

Us and Them.

Time to dig out your old copy of "Dark Side of the Moon".

One of the PBS news programs last night was in Qatar with the troops. The report included the phrase:

"And the Fries are still French"

referring to the food line.

Phil

Pan man, that's why you're my favorite:)
I suppose you belong to the NRA (National Restaurant Association?)

As I hope most of you know, I posted a similar thread not too long ago, and have since modified my thoughts.

Yes, "freedom fries" are stupid, but, I think funny, too. I think lot's of us get the joke, and I think it's a relatively humourous way of coping with a serious problem. Anyone who is offended by this type of venting is taking it way too seriously.

Having said that, I applaud Chiffinades post, and appreciate the history lesson as well.

I also take it personally, and just yesterday, when I went to observe the now bustling work site and hole of the WTC, I made a few observations:

What happened to the "unity" that was experienced after 9/11?

Not only did over 3,000 people lose their lives, but hundreds of thousands of people and businesses are even now affected.

The fact that I am no longer working in a now non-existant restaurant 3 blocks away was a direct result of the "mockery" of American values. Uemployment is at a very high level in NYC.

For the first time, I made a point of looking up the few names that I knew personally as customers and wondered how they would feel about the U.S. going to war. I read yesterday that most New Yorkers do not support the war and I thought that was ironic.

I still don't want their to be a war, I just think we need to be more supportive if we do.

Foreign Policy Redux.

Doesn't it seem like every few years we get into a war to remove from power the very dictator we gave power to? Saddam was supported by the CIA and G. Bush senior for years as they fought Iran. We did the same thing in Panama, the Phillippines, Nicaragua, and Haiti just since I can remember. The Saudis are our trading partners on one side and the backers of our "enemies" on the other. Now it is time for the American people to pay for the bad foreign policies of our recent past with our money and the blood of our young people. And it is time for the Iraqi people to get shot up for backing the person we backed and then decided to stop backing because we made a mistake(again). I would not call myself a laize-faire type, but this IS riduculous. Maybe if we stopped arming the rest of the world, we would not have our own weapons turned against us. Maybe if we stopped meddling in milleniums-old religious conflicts our country would not be at risk. Can I move to Canada now? I'll bring my own beer.

And now-people and politicians that dissent from the pro-war stance are considered "unpatriotic" and "not supportive of the war effort". I saw Ari Fleicher on the news last night, wryly smiling that it was'nt the adminstrations' point to make the Democrats seem 'unsupportive of the war" because they asked how it would be paid for.
Patriotism is the last refuge for scoundrels!

Peach, I don't want to turn this into a purely political discussion, but first maybe you could read this:


http://www.cheftalkcafe.com/forums/s...&threadid=9554

Basically, I think it's a lot more complicated than you make it out to be and are restating some of the obvious shortcomings of our foreign policy.

I personally don't consider dissenters "unpatriotic," I only wonder why there isn't more balance in presenting the issues. I think, at the very least, as a nation we should be supportive of all the guys and gals fighting for us.

I think pointing to the "french fries" thing as an indication of Bush's foreign policy is ingenuine and humorous, but that doesn't mean I will jump on the band wagon and start dissing my own country, it's people and it's military. It's just as important to note historical progress as it is to remember historical disasters.

I will be deeply troubled if America slips back into complacency as it was pre 9/11.

Now back to my "Freedom" Roast coffee.:)

Pete, I share many of the same feelings, and obviously I realize the differences between supporting our troops versus our government.

I think there are many valid reasons for going to war and even many valid reasons for supporting our government, and I think that's a whole other thread. As I've often wondered, and nobody seems to have an answer for, where is the balance?

Unfortunately, as I've said before, I don't think the Bush team, himself in particular, has done a very good job of presenting those reasons. He comes off as a not-very-inspiring-leader to us and the world.

But that doesn't mean our government is doing everything wrong. With the exception of NYC, the majority of Americans support the reasons behind going to war and they are fed up with the U.N..

Although I don't think anyone here is exactly dissenting against our soldiers, in some instances I think one implies the other, and historically speaking, the general public has pointed it's anger and frustration at the troops. Don't you think, if and when this starts, they will want our prayers and blessings? How will they feel if the general public seems against the very cause they are fighting for?

As I've said repeatedly on the boards, I think dissension is a healthy thing, necessary, in fact. And I'm not accusing anyone here on ChefTalk of Anything. I just want to see more about the possible valid reasons for waging war and I'm simply presenting a different side that I don't think gets expressed enough.

It's very easy and very popular to be against a war, and I think a lot of people get sucked into that mindset without even realizing what the big picture is. I would generally be in that category, but this time, for some reason, I'm not, and that comes after a lot of thinking and research.

To me it seems similar to criticizing City Hall for sending out firefighters to put out a fire and then cursing the firefighters for breaking the windows.

A great deal of time has been given to reason, diplomacy and dissent; now is the time for action and unity.

That doesn't mean we have to give the government a rubber stamp and it doesn't mean people are "Unpatriotic" for voicing their protest. God knows America is full of "individuals" and rebellious spirit, but I just hope on some level we can display a common ground in support of our country and its soldiers.

Gotta go pick up my Freedom Dry Cleaning.......:)



:eek: Don't beat me up too much:)

There have been many protests around the world, mostly good. Again, I think it's important to protest.
What dismays me is the oftentimes violence surrounding the so-called "peaceful" protests. Here in NYC today thousands were able to peacefully protest the war, however, in the end, several cops and protesters ended up bloody and/or arrested. I think what people don't realize is that this is a war unlike any in our past, and it is no longer the 60's, the 70's, Beserkeley or any other such place.
The cops here have enough to deal with, and like our soldiers are being publically scrutinized like never before. With amusement I read the poster of a 15yr. old? student which read: "vote to impeach Bush!" I thought that was one of the best posters I've seen. I would vote for that, but I wouldn't vote for a ceasefire. I think we should finish a job that should have been finished long ago.
Mind you, I was often harassed by cops: in SF for having dyed blonde hair:D and talking to a bunch of sailors! For walking with a beer during the East Village riots of '92?, for walking home in a very dodgey area of the LES.
But I never took it very personally and I think it is clear at this point that the military is going to unprecedented end to ensure proper treatment of military and non-military targets.
If I was protesting the war, the last thing I would be compelled to do is throw a bottle at a cop. Why? And after all they have gone through....This is not us against them.
If you care enough and know enough to protest the war, do it respectfully. The violence surrounding these occasions only point to stupidity and hypocrisy equal to the right-wing idiots who give similar demonstrations of their ignorance regarding the war and war-time strategy and etiquette.
I admit that I am somewhat biased. My bro shipped off today for a second tour at Diego Garcia as a crew chief on a B52.
I'm not really worried. He wants to do it, and even before that, I felt strongly about the entire situation.
I only wish the best for our country and countrymen. I think this can even trickle down to cooks and cookees:chef:

There is no end to this so called war read up on the little new world order group that Cheney,Wolfowitz,Rumsfeld,Perle etc. belong to. They plan on going after Iran and Syria and a host of others they wrote up this little plan years ago to re-shape the world in their image it is really scary stuff.

Another point about the protests is to read up about COINTELPRO it is our goverments little program to invade opposition groups to incite violence to make the protests look bad. It has been happening since the Vietnam era.

:chef:

Holyd..

What you point out is the typical paranoid propoganda that usually accompanies war, and you don't really go in to specific examples. For every conspiracy theory, I believe there is at least an equally compelling debunking of...
Again, I want to point out that I am no fan of the above mentioned characters, and again, this sort of jockeying for political power has gone on since the dawn of time.
Remember our country was established through a difficult and labourious war. Several times our personal freedoms and independence have been reenforced through war.
I tend to believe that this is one of those rare occasions. And again, I don't think you have to be pro-Bush or even pro-administration to be a "patriot," but at least support our troops, and if you protest, do it with thought, respect and in the tradition of Gandhi, who was very successful!

Peace:)

Oh yes it is always paranoid propoganda cause you know our goverment never does anything bad.............

Definitely, history recurs.
This "French" names thing reminds me of something my daddy used to tell me.
During Fascism, in Italy all the foreign words (especially American) were banned, to preserve the purity of Italian language.
Can you imagine who was that "Luigi Fortebraccio" whose records (he played trumpet amazingly ;) ) were sold like hot cakes between the Italian young people?

Pongi

:)
I often forget that a lot of chefs Are paranoid...

I know for a fact that the FBI has been trailing me for years wondering why, as a registered communist, I persist in interfacing with unruly democrats and liberals all the while putting out Republican War-Monger-Reagan-Loving Vibes....:)

Pongi, is that a true story? Because if it is that's a classic. I know I've heard similar stories about the purity of the French Language, but I never realized it extended to Italian. If so, please, please share more experiences like that.
As one who has traveled throughout Europe and always found Europeons to be sympathetic to the American "cause," I am curious to find people who share stories such as yours.
And thanks for sticking to the topic.:chef:

I know everyone is watching US News and the occasional Al Jeezera newscast. Interestingly enough, I was watching my MIL's Greek TV (didn't understand a word) but the war was not shown in a very good light there. Lots of Iraqi wounded shown and lots of angry voices on screen. And every few minutes on CNN you hear "The oil wells are ok." "They are working furiously to save the oil" "Iraqi Oil will reduce the current gas prices by 20%". I wish they would stop talking about the oil already. Im stuck somewhere in the middle. I was not born American, originally from the west indies, but I am American. Hard to explain. I understand why most of the world is angry with America. Ive heard it all my life. "The Americans are arrogant! Always butting in when you don't want them, trying to take over your economy with their companies and treating you like crap when they visit. blah blah blah" :rolleyes: I could write a book on all the dissent Ive listened to over the years. I think it comes down to pride. Most countries, who need help, don't want help from America since they believe that there will always be strings attached. And get quite upset when they are forced to accept help from America, whether they like it or not. It all comes down to pride and poor people have more than their share of that attribute.

As someone explained it to me, which I find more believeable than Bush's explanation, is that the Gulf War was never over. It was just a cease fire between the US and Iraq, which was conditional. Iraq was supposed to comply with the UN weapons inspections etc. etc. etc. Since Sadaam was flagrantly disregarding the cease fire conditions, we did not neccessisarily need the UN approval to go in to Iraq. So, in laymans terms, it was a breach of contract.

As for helping people who later don't like you. That happens everyday, from Kindergarten up. I once gave a homeless woman half of my paycheck (I was in high school) because she had kids and I wanted to help. I am not going to look at her and say "She may get back on her feet, get a good job, might one day interview me and not offer me the job. I can't let that happen." No one does that, you just help. If you can't look into the future and anticipate what will occurr in the future, you cannot expect the politicians to do so. I may not agree with Bush's methods and reasoning regarding this war, I may think it a bit petty and ridiculous to be boycotting french food especially when our economy is in a decline, but I support our troops. That's my cousin out there on the front lines and my family could receive a visit from the service at anytime. If he dies, I will not stand over his body and say "You're an idiot."


I really should turn off CNN...it really isn't making me feel better but its the only way to feel that you know they are ok. :( :(

By the way...does anyone get the feeling that the pres and co are doing a "Well, it worked in Afghanistan...." thing?? And if anyone wants to correct my bit of heresay regarding the cease fire with Sadaam, please do so.


Pongi,

Do you know anything about the missing Italian journalists?? Has anyone heard from them?? :(


PS

Can't believe that one of the POWs is actually a cook!!

Chef1x,
apparently the story of Luigi Fortebraccio is the simple truth. I've done a quick online search and it's mentioned in many Italian music sites. They also speak of another outstanding "italian" musician, called Beniamino Buonuomo, whose performances were often broadcast by the Regime radio :D
Although unbelievable, it must have been the only way to cheat a censorship that banned, between many other things, also the "Negro music"...

Shawtycat,
those Italian journalists seem to be alive and well, as it has been announced on TV by another Italian correspondent. They cannot contact their families as their cellular phones have been confiscated, but they're waiting for a permission to leave Iraq.
Thanks for asking!

Pongi

Shawtycat,
Very well said, in my opinion. A unique perspective and a welcome one.
Thanks.:)

The thing is it didn't work in Afgnanistan read the news from around the world about what is going on there. We hold a city and a couple bases and nothing more I believe we have taken big losses there and are not being told. They beat the Russian bear in the 80's they certainly can beat us people in these countrys know how to fight guerilla warfare they have been fighting this way since before Alexander the great. Against guerilla tactics technology is null and void Russia found that out we are finding that out in Iraq ask the English and French and Spanish about trying to occupy countries that hate you to the core and will do anything to repel you. Vietnam,Morroco,Afghanistan,Algeria,Somalia,etc... ..........

A friend of mine is living in Lyon for a year and this is a comment from her about the American boycott of all things French:

"I’m sure the American media is full of stories of Americans being mistreated by the French. We’ve heard some wonderful anecdotes on this end. Our friend Paul, who manages one of the fanciest restaurants in Lyon, told us that, aside from the vintners, the French are delighted with the American boycott of French wines. Many wines that are normally only for export are now available to the French. Restaurant owners are rubbing their hands, stocking their wine cellars, and wondering if maybe there’s a way to get the Japanese to boycott as well!"

And the beat goes on. :D

And hey Jodi! Where have you been? I've missed reading your posts.

I agree that even if America took over Bagdad that the fighting won`t stop, even if Saddam is killed it won't stop. Bagdad is the holy city for Muslims. We just don't belong there.

:chef:

Phoebe, I believe the word is "betrayed," as the French are not capable of mistreating the U.S. ( and I am only referring to the government).....
Personally, if the French people are happy with us not buying their wine, and I am happy with the far superior American wines, I don't see any reason for any animosity:D . It will only help our own economy, non?

Holyd, man, you need to come in from the cold and take a few more history lessons, that kind of attitude can't be healthy!:D

Pongi, thank you for more of that, do you have more? My own father lived for Benny Goodman during those days, he still does...:cool:

Shawty, thanks for giving a reasonable and balanced viewpoint.....remember that any "world" power is always hated and the object of envy...as are you and I by people less fortunate....

Pinarello,
Many credible "people" also argued against the wisdom of occupying cities such as Berlin, Tokyo, Rome, Paris, Belgrade, Panama City,.....it's always risky, and in the above cases, somewhat successful and progressive. Saving thousands and thousands of lives, year after year....
In order that thay may enjoy a good meal, prepared by a grateful chef!:)

Time for me to enjoy my cup of "freedom" roast coffee purchased from my local French bakery, operated by an American master chef!:chef:

Pongi,

I am so relieved to hear that! I'll feel even better when they are out of Iraq and back home with their respective families.



Chrose,

Thank you.



Pheobe,

Ive been sending off my relatives. Most of my family is either:

US Army
US Airforce
US Coast Guard
Police Officer
Security Guard
EMT
and the odd computer hacker interspaced.

I actually tried to join the reserves but the Army wouldn't let me in. :( I was a single mom of a 11mth old baby girl. Oh, well. Isn't it weird? My family comes here and immediately joins the US Army & Airforce directly out of high school. :eek: I think it is a bit funny, but atleast we get to fight with our other relatives in the British & Canadian Armies. Wouldn't leave a relative to fight alone. :) Other than that, Ive been hanging out on eBay selling cookbooks.


HELLO CT! I'VE MISSED ALL OF YOU WONDERFUL PEOPLE!!! :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

germany, france , russia and china,,, the main oposers to the war all own multi billion dollar oil opperations in iraq,,,, Hmmmmmm wonder why they oppose the people of the country getting a share.

I have a funny one about the whole freedom frie thing. Our classes menu the other day called for Pommes Frites. This kid that wrote the menu put freedom fries on the menu board. Unfortunately our regular chef is out this week with a family crisis. He is french, I would have loved to have seen his reaction.

 

In fact already during World War I, Americans renamed sauerkraut "Liberty Cabbage" and - get fasten for that one - they renamed hamburgers "Liberty Steaks"! Funny when you think that burgers are now the quintessential American food symbol!!

world record necro?

No... remember last week? http://www.cheftalk.com/t/2797/is-emeril-in-the-house

 

 

Wow I guess that's what happens when you start using the search function...