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Whipped Cream Frosting

post #1 of 41
Thread Starter 
Ok, I've been trying a number of stabilized whipped cream frosting recipes with mixed success. Any professionals out there using true whipped cream frostings or should I toss that notion and go with the prepackaged non-dairy stuff?
Kevin
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Kevin
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post #2 of 41
kthull
I never used stabilizers before and never had any problems, unless its like 95 degrees out ?? I have always used just whipped cream with 10X and its been fine..

pat
post #3 of 41
ditto.

Regular whip cream holds for at least 3 hours out of the fridge sitting on a buffet. When held on an item in the fridge over night it does soften, but it doesn't just break down to liquid.

The way I stablize whip cream is to do 50/50 real whip cream with the non-dairy stuff.

And when it's real hot........your have to worry about more then just the whip cream........your whole torte will break down.
"Bakers are born, not made. We are exacting people who delight in submitting ourselves to rules and formulas if it means achieving repeatable perfection", Rose Levy Beranbaum
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"Bakers are born, not made. We are exacting people who delight in submitting ourselves to rules and formulas if it means achieving repeatable perfection", Rose Levy Beranbaum
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post #4 of 41
kthull,

You might try this: whip in an almost-melted plain marshmallow near the end of the whipping process to stabilize the whipped cream to hold its shape on cakes and pies.

If you try it, let us know how it works for you.
post #5 of 41
Would that work because of the gelatin, Mudbug?
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post #6 of 41
Don't use that whipped topping, if you don't need to! How long does your cream need to hold? And under what conditions? There's a product called Cobasan that doesn't alter the taste or texture of your cream, but it doesn't stay stable nearly as long as the fake topping does. A whipped cream iced cake really can't be served more than a day or two after making it, no matter what you use to stabilize it.
post #7 of 41
Thread Starter 
These are all great suggestions...thanks.

Momo, I'll be making the cake a day ahead. But in addition to stability, I'm looking for more structure in the cream to hold the piping than what I've been able to get with plain old whip cream.

Last night I tried a tip I found online that said to put 1-2 Tbsp of vanilla pudding mix per cup of whipping cream. Man, was that tasty and full of structure. However, the funky yellow color rules that one out. I'm going for white. It does give hope to plain gelatin mixed into the cream, though.
Kevin
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Kevin
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post #8 of 41
The effect of using different amount of gelatin solution on whipped cream

1.) Objective- We prepared 7 different batches of whipped cream using no gelatin and varying amounts of gelatin, to see what effect this would have on the consistency and palatability of the final product.
2.) Hypothesis- Different amounts of gelatin, or none, added to whipped cream, will have an effect on it's consistency and palatability. This effect may range from none at all to a marked sponginess.
a) control 1 oz gelatin solution per pint- slightly firm
b) no gelatin-loose, wet, melting
c) .5 oz gelatin solution- slightly firm
d 1.5 oz gelatin solution- firmer but not objectionable
e) 2 oz gelatin solution- firmer, spongy
f) 3 oz gelatin solution- very firm
g) 4 oz gelatin solution- very firm
3.) Products prepared to illustrate objective: The following products were prepared to test the hypothesis. The control variable was the use of a standard amount of gelatin solution per lb of cream. Gelatin solution is made by dissolving 1 oz of powdered gelatin in 5 oz of cold water. One oz of this solution is equal to 1 2/3 sheets of leaf gelatin.

a) l oz gelatin solution/lb cream
b) none
c) .5 oz/lb
d) 1.5 oz/lb
e) 2 oz/lb
f) 3 oz/lb
g) 4 oz/lb

4.) Method of Preparation- whip the cold cream with the sugar and any desired flavorings to soft peaks. Weigh out the desired amount of gelatin solution and melt over hot water. Working quickly, add one-third of the cream to the gelatin, stir quickly with a whip, then fold this back into the whipped cream. Beat to the desired stage and pipe or spread immediately.
5.) Comments and Observations- This was a very straightforward experiment, requiring care in weighing and tempering and folding. 1 oz of sugar was to be added to the cream to sweeten it for tasting.
6.) Results-
1.) control-1 oz gelatin solution- firm, but not spongy. Nice cuttable texture.
2.) no gelatin- wetter and softer than the control. Not fully whipped, would collapse fairly quickly.
3.) .5 oz- nice consistency, soft, not rubbery, slightly bound
4.) 1.5 oz- firm, slight gelatin taste, not objectionably firm
5.) 2 oz- firm, still melted easily on the tongue, gelatin taste, starting to get rubbery
6.) 3 oz- too firm, pronounced gelatin taste, no cream taste
7.) 4 oz- very firm, almost un-cuttable with a spoon, pronounced gelatin taste
7.) Overall Conclusion- This experiment showed that there are degrees of acceptability as far as how much gelatin solution one adds to whipped cream. Clearly the larger amounts do not yield an acceptable product, but in hot weather one could probably push the amount to 1.5 oz of gelatin solution with added flavorings and sugar to avoid a meltdown of a torte or pastry containing whipped cream.
It's not Dairy Queen.
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It's not Dairy Queen.
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post #9 of 41
Thread Starter 
Very impressive!
Kevin
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Kevin
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post #10 of 41
thebighat,
Great contribution!

Mezzaluna,
While don't know the science of why, it does work for a whipped cream banana cream pie topping. The topping holds it shape even if you bring it to a picnic instead of falling apart by the time you leave your driveway...

;)
post #11 of 41
Nice demonstration of the scientific method, TBH. I'm going to share this with the science teachers in my school. They are always looking for "real" life experiments to keep the kids engaged.

The latest idea was to show the linkage between solar energy and human food energy. The kids chose a favorite food (Twinkies, reuben sandwich, etc.) and take it from 'sun + plant', enumerating every stage along the way. I can state positively that those kids know where at least some of their food comes from! However, I don't think they had to tell where the preservatives came from...
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post #12 of 41
I seem to remember that CI did a whipping cream test some months back. When I buy cream, I look at the ingredient list. If it says anything other that "cream", I put it back on the shelf. Apparently, all the other "stuff" producers put in cream is intended to stabilize it. CI decided that the addatives don't do much for the cream, either as a stabilizer or for the taste.
In my experience the degree to which the cream holds depends on how it was whipped in the first place. Basically, the stiffer the original whip, the better it will hold over time.

Jock
post #13 of 41
Thread Starter 
This time around, I used clear piping gel and powdered sugar to stabilized the whipped cream and so far it's been my best test. I think my last test will be with the gelatin (actually tried it, but messed it up by letting the gelatin nearly set).

But based on everyone's input, I'll steer away from the fake stuff (whew). And I think I'm also guilty of not so stiff of a whip as Jock suggests. It's such a fine line between perfect and over-beaten that I think I've been a bit too cautious.

Thanks everyone!
Kevin
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Kevin
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post #14 of 41
I've used Cobasan with great results.
I've also used small amount of white chocolate.
Bighat, great post!!
post #15 of 41

stabalized whipped cream

Try this-it works great:roll:

Whipped Cream Frosting


Ingredients:
1/2 teaspoon gelatin powder
2 tablespoons cold water
1 cup whipping cream
1 speck of salt
2 tablespoons confectioner's sugar
1/2 teaspoon lemon juice


Directions:
Sprinkle gelatine over cold water in small bowl to soften. Scald 2 tablespoon cream; pour over gelatine, stirring till dissolved. Refrigerate until consistency of unbeaten egg white. Then, mix with hand beater, beat until smooth. Whip remaining cream; add salt, sugar, lemon juice; fold in gelatine mixture.

Source: Good Housekeeping Cookbook

NOTES : Basic recipe fills and frosts top of 2 8" or 9" cake layers; or frosts 10" angel cake or spongecake. Stands up well, even in warm weather.

CHOCOLATE FROSTING: Omit lemon juice. After folding in gelatine mixture, fold in 1 6-oz. pkg. cooled, melted semisweet chocolate pieces (1 cup).

COFFEE FROSTING: To remaining cream, add 1 tsp. instant coffee

ORANGE FROSTING: Substitute 1 tsp grated orange rind for lemon juice.
post #16 of 41

Hello, I am new to this site.  I was just researching this topic because I too am having problems with my whipped cream frosted cakes.  I luckily don't get orders for them, but am worried about when I do.  I am trying to reproduce the consistency that Italian bakeries have on their cakes.  It is thick, stays white, holds shape, etc.  I made my frosting yesterday and found that :

a. it did not stay white, seemed to get a little brown in color

b. did not hold shape at all-what a mess (this is the one that really bothers me)

c. started weeping while piping the border

d. cracked

I have tried the gelatin stabilized whipped cream, but I didn't feel like it was good enough (maybe I did it wrong?). 

Any suggestions?

post #17 of 41

Hi Bunnycakes, 

 

It is best to use a cream with a 42-48% butterfat content when whipping cream.   

 

We use cream from our local dairy  with  48% butterfat content.

 

Our creme chantilly is:

 

80g of icing sugar per 1 litre cream and some vanilla.  This whips and holds up perfectly.

 

post #18 of 41

If I'm not mistaken though I read somewhere that using a cream with such high butter fat content makes your whipped cream come out with a bad consistency.  I'm not sure if they said it comes out like butter or just thick and not creamy.  In any event, I guess that when you whip up your butter, you have never had the problem of weeping?  Are you able to pipe any decorations with your whipped cream?

 

Bunnycakes

post #19 of 41
 

Hi  Bunnycakes,

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by bunnycakes View Post

 I read somewhere that using a cream with such high butter fat content makes your whipped cream come out with a bad consistency.  I'm not sure if they said it comes out like butter or just thick and not creamy.  In any event, I guess that you have never had the problem of weeping?  Are you able to pipe any decorations with your whipped cream?

 

Bunnycakes

Maybe the results differ from country to country/region because of the difference in cream but I haven't had a problem with the consistency or weeping and can pipe the cream perfectly. 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by bunnycakes View Post

 I too am having problems with my whipped cream frosted cakes. 

 

  I am trying to reproduce the consistency that Italian bakeries have on their cakes.  It is thick, stays white, holds shape, etc.  I made my frosting yesterday and found that :

a. it did not stay white, seemed to get a little brown in color

b. did not hold shape at all-what a mess (this is the one that really bothers me)

c. started weeping while piping the border

d. cracked

I have tried the gelatin stabilized whipped cream, but I didn't feel like it was good enough (maybe I did it wrong?). 

 

rereading your original post, I saw that you made your cream the day before.  It is best to whip the cream just before use or on the day of use. 
A volume of cream stored in the fridge overnight will always soften a bit and need rewhisking the day after.
Fresh cream products are considered 'high risk' in my country and so have strict temperature regulation and must be sold the day they are made.  So cream turning brown is never an issue-this is usually a sign of cream not sitting at the correct temperature or cream sitting in the fridge for a couple of days.
If the cream is weeping make sure it has been freshly whipped (and not over whipped -it can cause seperation when you apply pressure when piping) and your hands and the room should not be too warm when piping.
Hope this helps some, good luck.
 
 
post #20 of 41

Well I actually whipped my cream and then immediately applied it to my cooled cake.  I decorated the cake, then put it in the fridge for a party the next day.  So the next day when I took it out for the party, I noticed that it had cracked (could my layer of whip cream have been too thin?), then I had also noticed that the color did not seem crisp white.  The weeping occured while I was trying to apply a star tip border the previous night.  When I tried to touch up one of the cracks, the whipped cream that I touched just peeled right off.  I thought that was odd.  So I didn't know if this was normal, or if there was some secret trick to avoiding all these problems as the cakes that I see in the bakeries do not ever seem to look like this, and they are sitting in the fridge all day long, and still look fresh and smooth.

post #21 of 41

Not a professional, but I did just try to make whipped frosting using Knox gelatin.  I followed the recipe and the gelatin got stringy because the whipped cream was too cold, which is how it needs to be to whip.  So here I am looking to see if anyone has had the same issue and solved it somehow.  I won't be icing my cake with it, just using it as filling.

post #22 of 41

kthull,

 

I tried you piping gel suggestion and it worked awsome I kept trying the unflavored gelatin and it would never turn out right then I saw your post and figured I had nothing to lose by trying it. I have to deliver the cake tmmrrw so I'll let you know how it holds up after I frost it and deliver it. Thanks for the suggestion.

post #23 of 41

Just in case you want to forgo all the fuss, there is a great product I use found at Safeway called 'Bakers Cream'.  Its real cream but has stabilizers in it as well as being sweetened just right.  It taste made from scratch but holds up beautifully!  Find it next to the heavy cream in the dairy aisle.

post #24 of 41

O o the pipeing Jell didnt hold up so well for me after all. I spent til 3am trying to get it right. I finally gave up this morning and went to the local grocery store that makes cakes and purchased thier premade whipped icing they use. While it was more expensive than making my own or even buying the boxed stuff if I had just done this to begin with Id have saved alot of money and stress because it has everything in it I needed and spreads very nicely. I will do this from now on if I ever need to make another whipped cake tho I doubt I ever want to tackle another one. 

post #25 of 41

I suggest three things. 

 

I'm not a professional but it's very hot here and i do tons of baking and i've had success with these

 

One is to do an italian meringue and when it's VERY cool, fold in whipped cream.  That keeps it soft and fluffy and the meringue holds it from melting unless you really keep it in the sun. 

 

The other, which is still fluffy but a LITTLE less so, but extremely stable, is to whip some cream cheese first with the sugar and vanilla, and then add the cream and whip it all together.  this gives more stability and is good for decorating. 

 

A third would be to sweeten it with some white chocolate, which is not really chocolate flavored (nobody guesses there;'s chocolate in it) and so you're actually making a white chocolate ganache.  I tried to do this, but it's harder to work with the white chocolate than the regular chocolate, and when i tried it, it curdled (the recipe i used called for a food processor which i don;t have but you probably do).  The white chocolate hardens enough to maintain the whipped cream, much like a regular chocolate ganache.  And chocolate ganache doesn't need to go in the fridge and maintains its shape and is great in texture. 

 

I would steer clear of all those additives.  They add nothing in flavor and texture, while the above (meringue, cream cheese and white chocolate) are all good in themselves - i think that's a good principle, to use ingredients that are good in themselves rather than concoctions to make something hold its shape.  The end product will be better-tasting, i think. 

"Siduri said, 'Gilgamesh, where are you roaming? You will never find the eternal life that you seek...Savour your food, make each of your days a delight, ... let music and dancing fill your house, love the child who holds you by the hand and give your wife pleasure in your embrace.'"
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"Siduri said, 'Gilgamesh, where are you roaming? You will never find the eternal life that you seek...Savour your food, make each of your days a delight, ... let music and dancing fill your house, love the child who holds you by the hand and give your wife pleasure in your embrace.'"
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post #26 of 41

I have used clear Agar for years, It holds up quite well even in this Florida heat. (piping gel and Agar almost the same)  Almost anything you add, unless in small amounts changes overall texture.

Chef EdB
Over 50 years in food service business 35 as Ex Chef. Specializing in Volume upscale Catering both on and off premise .(former Exec. Chef in the largest on premise caterer in US  with 17 Million Dollars per year annual volume). 
      Well versed in all facets of Continental Cuisine...

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Chef EdB
Over 50 years in food service business 35 as Ex Chef. Specializing in Volume upscale Catering both on and off premise .(former Exec. Chef in the largest on premise caterer in US  with 17 Million Dollars per year annual volume). 
      Well versed in all facets of Continental Cuisine...

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post #27 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by kthull View Post

This time around, I used clear piping gel and powdered sugar to stabilized the whipped cream and so far it's been my best test. I think my last test will be with the gelatin (actually tried it, but messed it up by letting the gelatin nearly set).

But based on everyone's input, I'll steer away from the fake stuff (whew). And I think I'm also guilty of not so stiff of a whip as Jock suggests. It's such a fine line between perfect and over-beaten that I think I've been a bit too cautious.

Thanks everyone!

My baker just picked  up some piping gel.  The salesperson said to use about 4 Tbsp per quart of heavy cream.  Do you add the gel after the cream is mostly whipped when you add the sugar or before whipping? 
 

 

post #28 of 41

HELP!  I have someone who wants whipped icing, but they want it in ELECTRIC BLUE!  How in the world can I achieve this?

post #29 of 41

Piping Gel and Agar Agar are almost same thing. Experiment with the colors  a little at a time I would use a paste color  instead of a liquid.

Chef EdB
Over 50 years in food service business 35 as Ex Chef. Specializing in Volume upscale Catering both on and off premise .(former Exec. Chef in the largest on premise caterer in US  with 17 Million Dollars per year annual volume). 
      Well versed in all facets of Continental Cuisine...

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Chef EdB
Over 50 years in food service business 35 as Ex Chef. Specializing in Volume upscale Catering both on and off premise .(former Exec. Chef in the largest on premise caterer in US  with 17 Million Dollars per year annual volume). 
      Well versed in all facets of Continental Cuisine...

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post #30 of 41
hina,
you'll have to read the pages before. many of us have had the same inquiry.
and it's "all" been explained by many people. at this point it'd be redundant to say it all again.
I'm just sayin... many of us started reading this thread from page one. plus we've posted on on the first page and continued through all the pages...
...All anyone ever does is complain....stop griping and start being thankful...be grateful...be appreciative...
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...All anyone ever does is complain....stop griping and start being thankful...be grateful...be appreciative...
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