[Hornviper]

Hello everyone,
I am in the market for a carbon steel gyuto (210-240mm). I don't have any carbon steel knives at the moment, and I want to get one. There are a few good deals in the $200 range (Misono for example), but I am open to suggestions. I do like White Steel, but I can't find anything that fits in that range. I am not in the USA, so ordering a knife from Japan is probably my best bet. Chefknivestogo have some pretty good knives, but they don't ship to my country. I like both European/Japanese style handles, so that's not an issue. I can buy a Misono/Fujiwara gyuto from JCK, but I am sure there are other good ones I am probably missing.

P.S I do have a collection of knives and I daresay I am a competent sharpener. Definitely not looking for a razor straight out of the box.

Thank you in advance for your help and time.

 

[aliphares]

Here's a quick rundown of some good carbon knives I know of, mostly based in reading on the internet though:
Misono Sweden: Great knife with great f&f and I like the profile a lot. If you're buying a carbon knife for the sake of it being carbon this could be the one that teaches you the most. Its super reactive till the patina sets in.
Fujiwara FKS: great knife for the price, but the cheap SK4 steel will smell and stain food very easily until it it settles, which is why I'm not a big fan
Togiharu VC and Suisin high carbon: I'm putting them together since they're korin knives. Korin has a french website as well as American one so you might be able to find them in Europe, I'm not sure tho
Masahiro VC(Virgin Carbon): harder steel and slightly cheaper and a lower tip, for those reasons some people prefer it over the misono, I prefer the French profile of the dragon.
Sabatiers: speaking io french, k sabatiers and thiers issard carbon knives are excellent in their own right. They're softer than Japanese gyutos but with steeling can stay sharp for just as long, and get almost as sharp, they're also a lot cheaper. There's the newer carbon or the old stock (like the Massif or the Nogent)
Masamoto has some incredible knives as well. CT and the HC, the latter being just over your budget unless you're going for 210. Used to have some f&f issues with the handles but that was years ago, not sure how they are now, still, some people with a lot more experience than I think of them as the best mass produced Jknives.
You can find some white and blue steel knives for under 200 but with a San Mai build, aka W or B steel wrapped in another steel, if you want a carbon knife just get one with a non stainless outer layer, there's a lot of those, some have a Kurouchi (KU) finish that makes them not as reactive but that will eventually wear off. I like the Tanaka blue#2 from k&s, they carry a KU finish one and a Damascus finish one, again the latter is just over 200 for the 240mm
These are just general suggestions of some knives that are only similar in that they're not stainless. There's a lot more to take into consideration, do you want a workhouse or a laser? how do you like your profile? And many many others.
Hope this helped either way,
Ali

 

[Hornviper]

Thank you both. I like the fact that the Misono is quite thin. I tend to like thin blades and I never bang them around either. Yes, I am aware of their asymmetrical grind. Masahiros are good too, I agree. I've never owned one, but I've only heard good things about them. Yeah, carbon steel is quite reactive, but it definitely has its advantages. I like the fact that the Swedish steel they use is finely grained. I am not too worried about edge retention as I can always resharpen the knife.

 

[millionsknives]

Yeah the knives and stones tanaka has better fit and finish and a handle upgrade over other vendors. It's still in your budget too. The great thing about carbon is you can thin it very easily (and you should occasionally when you sharpen).

http://www.knivesandstones.com/blue-2/

Also take a look at this:

http://www.knivesandstones.com/syou...-aogami-super-stainless-cladding-by-kurosaki/

The 210 is in your price range, the 240 is a little over. It's stainless clad so only the last cm near the edge is exposed carbon. More annoying to thin and refinish, but easier to manage reactivity. It's a fair tradeoff.

 

[Hornviper]

Excellent suggestions, thank you. I just read that Misonos are more reactive that some of the other carbon knives. I am usually pretty clean and I don't mind rinsing the knife from time to time. However, is it going to make my onions/tomatoes stink to high heavens?

 

[Hornviper]

Won't the knife stop leaving black marks once patina has set in? I little bit more iron in my diet won't hurt, but the folks at home won't be very happy. Yes, some people create really cool patterns with vinegar, mustard, etc.

 

[Hornviper]

That's true. My grandparents never used stainless steel. I just can't warrant the purchase of another stainless steel knife. After a while they all start to look/feel the same (to me). The Swedish carbon steel seems to be decent, so why not? The ones from the Australian store are pretty cool too. Shirogami #2 will probably blow the Misonos out of the water, but I still like their profile.

I came across several good looking blue steel gyutos on ebay but the seller makes no mention of their hardness. I'd expect it to be somewhere between 60-62.

 

[rick alan]

Too bad the Ikazuchi is sold out for a change.
https://www.japaneseknifeimports.co...uchi-240mm-stainless-clad-blue-super-wa-gyuto

 

[aliphares]

Too bad the Ikazuchi is sold out for a change.
https://www.japaneseknifeimports.co...uchi-240mm-stainless-clad-blue-super-wa-gyuto

It's stainless clad which defeats the point, hence I didn't recommend it.
Anyways, I've talked to Jon about this and he told me he's ordered a shipment a couple of months ago, so it should be back in stock in 3 - 4 months tops, cuz it takes time.
But speaking of this, i was looking at 200 ish USD lasers, im torn between this and the ashi hamono And the Sakai takayuki grand chef and the Sakai yusuke W2. What's your take on them?

 

[Hornviper]

In what respect?

It's probably a bit more pure, but again, I've never used Misonos before. Misonos are cheaper probably because of the fact that they are mass produced (stamped) which doesn't make them bad. White steel heat treated to 62+ HRC will probably take a finer edge but that's why the Misono costs $100 and not $300. I am not the best cook in the world, so it should be more than good enough for people like me.

 

[Hornviper]

I've read that article before, it's quite good. Don't get me wrong, by "mass produced" I didn't mean they were of poor quality. They are cheaper for several reasons (some of which were mentioned in the article). As a matter of fact, all my knives are "mass produced" but I can't complain. I do wonder if the Misonos (hardened to about 60 HRC) get sharper than a SS knife hardened to (61 HRC). Sharper than a properly thinned and sharpened Shun, for example. That's what I've got basically, SS knives in that range.

 

[rick alan]

Understand also that knives from mass manufactures are typically 2+ hardness points below claims. There are very fine grained stainless like aeb-l/13C26, and R2 done right takes an edge close and perhaps equal to the best carbons. Personally I like the PM steel SRS-15, sharpens pretty easy and takes a very good edge for stainless, and it holds it's sharp much better than most anything. For serious board work it's hard to beat.

 

[rick alan]

It's stainless clad which defeats the point, hence I didn't recommend it.
Anyways, I've talked to Jon about this and he told me he's ordered a shipment a couple of months ago, so it should be back in stock in 3 - 4 months tops, cuz it takes time.
But speaking of this, i was looking at 200 ish USD lasers, im torn between this and the ashi hamono And the Sakai takayuki grand chef and the Sakai yusuke W2. What's your take on them?

The Ashi by consensus. Get the extra-hard if going aeb-l.

 

[aliphares]

The Ashi by consensus. Get the extra-hard if going aeb-l.

I was torn between it sns the white, leaning more to white though honestly. But then I found a lot of offerings within Europe for the same price, but half the shipping rates from Japan and no customs because it's from within the EU. I don't want to kidnap the thread so I'll send you a couple of links later on, I'd love your opinion on them

 

[Hornviper]

I like PMs too. I've only ever used HAP-40 knives though.(they weren't mine, so I haven't owned one) I think they can be very expensive though. If there's anything "decent" in the $200 range, I am all ears. I've never ordered any Japanese style knives from Europe, so if there are any stores I'd definitely like to have a look.

 

[Hornviper]

I've never been too big on edge retention. I don't use my knives all the time anyway, plus, I enjoy sharpening them. JCK have their own brand and they seem to be offering knives made of different steels. Are JCK's knives of decent quality? They have some reasonably priced knives but something tells me "that's too good to be true".

 

[Hornviper]

I haven't used Powdered steel knives long enough. The one I used cut well and it looked pretty nice. A few months ago I bought a chef knife made of ZA-18 and it has served me well so far. I don't know much about the steel but their edge retention is pretty good in my opinion. I don't know who makes their knives or how they make them, but their Blue Steel knives are pretty cheap. I'd expect a $98 blue steel gyuto to have some serious problems.

 

[Hornviper]

This one: https://japanesechefsknife.com/coll...s/jck-natures-blue-moon-series-wa-gyuto-210mm
I like the finish but the price....

 

[aliphares]

Cheaper knives are usually thicker, this is 181g for a 210, so I'm guessing this will be a pretty chunky knife.
About what you said benuser, curiously enough, just the other day I was talking to koki about the deep impact series. Particularly, about how they compare to the misono Sweden and carbonext, and he seemed to stir me towards the other two. This is part of the email:
"Deep Impact Aogami Super knives are good Carbon steel knives especially if you would like thin blade profile and great sharpness, edge retention of Aogami Super knife.
But among our serious users, for overall quality and price point, the CarboNext knife and Misono Sweden Steel knives are having much high reputation from our serious users.
Therefore, we are recommending CarboNext and Misono Sweden Steel Series knives more.
But if you would like to try Aogami Super knife and you would like thinner profile knives, Deep Impact knives can be good choice for your needs."
I was surprised honestly, as I liked the idea of getting one as a hiromoto clone and get it the "SPA treatment"
I know you like them but how do you think they fair against the hiromoto AS? Do you think I should go for that or one of the other two instead ? (I'm guessing the answer will be a masahiro tho )
And the second question is, do you know of any good knife customizers and rehandlers close to NL? I'd rather not send my knives to the US to get them all prettied up.

 

[Hornviper]

That's possible. The good thing is that a thick knife can always be thinned down. Believe it or not, I've seen blue/white steel knives in the $300 range and they were on the thick side. I have decent coarse stones, so getting it sorted won't be too much of a problem. All that being said, I do like the profile of the Misonos. It appears that Misonos have passed the test of time and a lot of people love them. The Aogami knives will probably have a slightly better edge retention, but that's not a big deal for me.