I've made it with a friend the last couple of years. Rock hard little crab-apples. PITA to cut up. Very seedy. Wouldn't want to even try to put that mess through a food mill. They do have enough pectin that I've never added any. One batch we made didn't seem to be setting up,so we cooked the bejesus out of it. It became very dark, a bit syrupy thick and somewhat caramelized and it was AWESOME. I love the stuff. I've used it instead of current jelly as a glaze as well.