[kokopuffs]

My favorite piecrust recipe is one that I have used for over 40 years. I've modified it some, but it's my perfect pie crust every time. Like the others who have posted, I prefer to work the pastry dough by hand.

6 cups flour (I like to use cake and pastry flour)

1 tsp baking powder

1 tsp salt

1 pound of vegetable shortening

1 egg

2 tbsp vinegar

water

Mix the dry ingredients together

Cut the shortening into small chunks

Using a pastry blender work the shortening into the flour mixture slowly until it is all mixed and the shortening is 'pea sized'. You will be able to take a handful and squeeze it - it should stick together.

Beat the egg is a one cup measuring cup, add the vinegar and fill the cup with water........

Why vinegar? this is the first time I've encountered it in making pie dough.

 

[flipflopgirl]

Vinegar is supposed to keep gluten formation in check and give you flakier results.
Sub it out for some of the liquid.
Gma Van always added some but that was back in the day when AP flour was all that was available to the home cook.
Today we have a zillion flours with different protein % at our fingertips and anyone can produce an awesome pie.

mimi

 

[flipflopgirl]

When I need butter for a shortbread ( or a crust for pie) I freeze it first then run across a grater ( largest holes) then lay out on a parchment sheet and stick it back in the freezer .
While the butter is refreezing I sift the drys together.
Toss the butter in and using my fingers I " lift" the butter thru the drys a couple times...until it is shaggy then stick the bowl back in the freezer for a min or two.
Finish with a bit of liquid to bring the mass together and shape disks ...
Sounds like a PITA but it is a good trick for those whose hands are too hot to "rub" the fat in.

mimi

 

[misschief]

Vinegar is supposed to keep gluten formation in check and give you flakier results.
Sub it out for some of the liquid.
Gma Van always added some but that was back in the day when AP flour was all that was available to the home cook.
Today we have a zillion flours with different protein % at our fingertips and anyone can produce an awesome pie.

mimi

That recipe is straight from the Tenderflake Shortening package and has been around forever. I'm in my 60's and I remember my mother using that recipe. She was a terrible cook/baker (she admits that she's always hated cooking and baking; it showed) and that her apple pies were the best thing she made..... usually.

 

[kokopuffs]

For my pate brisees I use exclusively White Lily AP flour.  It's a soft wheat flour where the main national brands are hard wheat.  Makes a real difference.  Should you have access to only hard wheat flours, then make yourself a 50-50 blend of hard wheat and pastry/cake flour like Swan's Down.  The blend will lighten your results.

 

[norcalbaker59]

Why vinegar? this is the first time I've encountered it in making pie dough.

Simple answer: there is an incorrect and persistent myth that vinegar will tenderize a crust by inhibiting gluten formation.

Geeky answer: wheat contains protein. A protein molecule in its native state repels bonding with other molecules around it. When the outer structure of a molecule is destroyed, it will readily bond with other molecules. You can see this happen when you cook an egg; beat egg whites; or bake a batter. The liquid coagulates into a cohesive mass because the damaged molecules begin to bond to one another. That reaction is called protein denaturation. Protein denaturation is irreversible.

In biology and chemistry classes, one of the first things they teach is protein denaturation. Agents of protein denaturation include heat and acid. Acetic acid is a common agent used in protein denaturation. Vinegar is acetic acid. When you add it to your dough, you prematurely trigger the protein denaturation reaction. When you put the dough in the oven, the heat continues the denaturation process. Too much protein denaturation too quickly results in a tough and chewy crust

 

[kokopuffs]

Simple answer:..................... Too much protein denaturation too quickly results in a tough and chewy crust

I'll just continue on with my pate brisee methode. Where you from in Nor Cal???

 

[wyandotte]

Gma Van always added some but that was back in the day when AP flour was all that was available to the home cook.

ABout 28 yr. ago an oldish woman (maybe 70+) game me her "perfect" pie crust recipe which, yes, did include vinegar!

Today we have a zillion flours with different protein % at our fingertips and anyone can produce an awesome pie.

No kidding. When I go to the bulk food joint I am so bewildered in the flour section. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/tongue.gif

 

[norcalbaker59]

kokopuffs, I live in the epicenter of both wine and food country--the Napa Valley. Just outside St. Helena. Ironically, I live surrounded by vineyards, but rarely drink. But I sure love to eat and the food in this region is nothing short of amazing.

 

[kokopuffs]

kokopuffs, I live in the epicenter of both wine and food country--the Napa Valley. Just outside St. Helena. Ironically, I live surrounded by vineyards, but rarely drink. But I sure love to eat and the food in this region is nothing short of amazing.

Me, I lived in El Cerrito and Berkeley's Gourmet Ghetto areas from 1975 thru 1989, when the food revolution was just beginning its ascent and before Napa became highly gentrified. Onward and upward! 8)

 

[rpooley]

My go-to recipe:

1 1/2 c AP flour

10 T unsalted butter

big pinch salt

big pinch sugar

5 T ice water

This is enough for a generous 9-inch or standard 10-inch, usually with some scraps left over for little tart pans I have.

Maybe I'm doing something wrong, but pie crusts pretty much generally always seem to turn out fine. If there are a couple of things that seem to make a difference, I would offer these:

Resting/chilling the dough after mixing in the fridge.

Resting/chilling the dough after rolling/plating

LOTS and LOTS of beans or pie weights, whatever you use to blind bake

The biggest secret for me is if I'm going to make one recipe, I make 6, and freeze the rest.

@Norcalbaker59 Your rolling technique reminds me of Chef Jim Dodge's from so many decades ago. I love his books and wish they would come back into print.

 

[norcalbaker59]

Me, I lived in El Cerrito and Berkeley's Gourmet Ghetto areas from 1975 thru 1989, when the food revolution was just beginning its ascent and before Napa became highly gentrified. Onward and upward! 8)

I know the areas well...former train operator for BART. Worked out of the Richmond yard. If you ever used BART, I may well have been the operator in the train cab. Lived in North Berkeley off Euclid until late '80s, then moved to the City. Circled from east coast to west...now back to where I grew up.

 

[norcalbaker59]

rpooley, I didn't know who Jim Dodge was, so googled him. I found an LA Times article from 2002 that included his pie crust recipe. It's almost identical to what I do! If only I had known about Dodge before my pie crust madness--could have saved me weeks of work and several hundred dollars in ingredients))))

 

[rpooley]

If you hunt around, you can find video of him making it with Julia Child

 

[kokopuffs]

I know Kokopuffs has great success with Ruhlmans pie crust ratio but I find it too loose and greasy.

Loose???? Greasy???

for six ounces of flour Ruhlman calls for 4 oz fat. Since american butter is 80% fat, then 5 oz instead of 4 oz of american butter needs to be added to the dry ingredients. The crust will roll out much smoother.

And also, my pate brisee is a three-day process as I've mentioned previously.

1. Day one make the dough and flatten into a disk. Wrap in plastic. Allow to rest at room temp for an hour and refrigerate overnight or even for several days.
2. Day two roll the dough and line the mold. Uncovered, allow the dough to rest at room temp for an hour and refrigerate overnight uncovered for drying.
3. Blind bake for 45 minutes, remove weights and bake for 10 minutes more then brush a wash onto the crust and bake for another 10 minutes or so.

I've mentioned all of this in previous threads and my method has evolved into what's shown in The Art of French Pastry by Jacquy Pfeiffer.

 

[kokopuffs]

My go-to recipe:

1 1/2 c AP flour

10 T unsalted butter

big pinch salt

big pinch sugar

5 T ice water
......... If there are a couple of things that seem to make a difference, I would offer these:
Resting/chilling the dough after mixing in the fridge.

Resting/chilling the dough after rolling/plating

LOTS and LOTS of beans or pie weights, whatever you use to blind bake

The biggest secret for me is if I'm going to make one recipe, I make 6, and freeze the rest..........

Resting and chilling along all stages relaxes the gluten as you already know. It would therefore seem to me that resting/chilling eliminates the need to add vinegar to the mix unless the dough is made, mixed and baked all in the same day.

 

[kokopuffs]

Pate brisee, BTW, is basically just "pie crust" in French.

NO! Here it's a question of semantics. In France a tart is all about the crust; here in America concerning pie, it's the filling. In France the pate brise is made using a high fat butter like Kerrygold whereas in America shortening and/or lard is used which results in a huge difference in flavor profile.

 

[brianshaw]

NO! Here it's a question of semantics. In France a tart is all about the crust; here in America concerning pie, it's the filling. In France the pate brise is made using a high fat butter like Kerrygold whereas in America shortening and/or lard is used which results in a huge difference in flavor profile.

YES AND NO! Just as there is no definitive authoritative legal standard for pate brisee (that I know of) there is no definitive standard for American pie crust. Your generalizations about the preferred fats are generally true though.

I wasn't splitting hairs quite that much, and definitely not restricting the use of pate brisee to tarts. Here is what I was talking about:

http://dictionary.reverso.net/french-english/pâte brisée

 

[norcalbaker59]

YES AND NO! Just as there is no definitive authoritative legal standard for pate brisee (that I know of) there is no definitive standard for American pie crust. Your generalizations about the preferred fats are generally true though.

I wasn't splitting hairs quite that much, and definitely not restricting the use of pate brisee to tarts. Here is what I was talking about:

http://dictionary.reverso.net/french-english/pâte brisée

Kokopuffs makes a salient point on difference between interpretation of language verses ingredients between American and French pastry.

By law, butter in the US must be a minimum of 80% butterfat. In France, law mandates a minimum of 82% butterfat. Aside from butterfat, fermentation is a differentiating factor between French and American butter. In France, the cream is rested up to 18 hours before its churned. During the rest period, the cream naturally ferments, essentially becomes creme fraiche, then it's churned into butter.

French butter is often called cultured butter. American butter is labeled "Sweet Cream" which refers to the unfermented cream used to churn the butter. American butter is in fact so bland, manufacturers add flavoring to give it some defining characteristics.

Aside from the tangy flavor imparted by the culturing, the texture is altered by the higher acidity. The fermentation also gives the butter a mailable quality that is not found in American butter, and increases the melting point. These qualities contribute to a more tender crumb and better rise, especially in yeast doughs.

The Vermont Creamy in the US produces an excellent cultured butter with 86% butterfat. The owner of the dairy lived and work in France before opening her dairy; her butter is produced in the same manner as French butter.

Butter in the US labeled "European Style", like Plugra, is not cultured butter. Rather, it's sweet cream butter with a butterfat content similar to the levels found in European butters.

Beurre d'Echire is the gold standard butter for many bakers in France. It's has AOC status (Appellation d'Origine Controlee) and is produced by a collective of only 66 farms. So availability is limited, but it is available online and in some gourmet grocery stores. The butterfat in Beurre d'Echire is 84%.

When using a French butter, you may not be able to make 1:1 conversion. You have to take into account the difference in both butterfat and the gluten content of the flour used. While French butter has higher butterfat, French flour has lower gluten content than American flour. So in addition to the differences in butters between the countries, flour differences also attribute to the marked quality and flavor differences between pastry produced in France and the US.

 

[kokopuffs]

French flour is a soft wheat flour like White Lily AP flour that's produced in the southern states.