[surfcast]

I am making a pizza using the pizza bible recipe. It is calling for malt powder. I have barley malt syrup can I use it interchangeably.

 

[brianshaw]

If the malt syrup is diastatic, I think it can. You'll need to correct for wet vs dry. My understanding is that malt syrup is about 20% water. If your malt syrup does not specifiy that it is diastatic, then assume that it is not. What Tony uses diastatic malt to aid fermentation by it's enzymatic activity. Nondiastatic malt has no active enzymes and is basically just for sweetening and color.

I'm using a diastatic malt powder that is 60 degrees Lintner whereas Tony's is 20 degrees Lintner... so I used only a third of what is specified in the recipe. Seemed to be no problem at all.

I recently did that exercize and followed the Master Class to the T (except for the diastatic malt amount). I may have overbaked my first efforts a bit since it was my forst time using a 2-stone process, The dough was really good tasting and easy to handle. The cold ferment technique took a long time and it seems worthwhile.

Hint: with an extra dough ball I was going to make garlic knots but ended up making a garlic loaf. Rolled crushed garlic and olive oil in the dough and after baking dressed the top with Maldon salt and Parmesano Reggiano.

 

[brianshaw]

… and look at this gluten network. This is after the first 24 hour bulk ferment. It’s so pretty that it’s my screensaver!

 

[surfcast]

That is one impressive pizza! Does this look like the right Malt?

 

[brianshaw]

That one is very powerful diastatic malt powder. King Arthur (a representative, not the legendary King himself) verified that it is 120 degrees Lintner. That is more powerful than most bread bakers recommend but the King has legendary bread bakers working for him so I don't quite know what to think.

I bougjt annother one, whic was verified as 60 degrees Lintner... so closer to what Tony G sells and recommends, but still seems to benefit from an adustment to be more equivalent.

Diastatic Malt Powder by Medley hills farm 1.5 Lbs. in Reusable Container

Amazon.com : Diastatic Malt Powder by Medley hills farm 1.5 Lbs. in Reusable Container - Great Diastatic malt powder for baking Bread, Pizza Crust, Pretzels, Desserts and Milkshakes. Made in the USA - Vegan : Grocery & Gourmet Food

Amazon.com : Diastatic Malt Powder by Medley hills farm 1.5 Lbs. in Reusable Container - Great Diastatic malt powder for baking Bread, Pizza Crust, Pretzels, Desserts and Milkshakes. Made in the USA - Vegan : Grocery & Gourmet Food

www.amazon.com

Had I read his book before buying that diastatic malt, I probably would have just bought what he sells:

Giovanni Italian Specialties by Tony Gemignani – | San Francisco, North Beach, CA

giovannispecialties.com

 

[surfcast]

That one is very powerful diastatic malt powder. King Arthur (a representative, not the legendary King himself) verified that it is 120 degrees Lintner. That is more powerful than most bread bakers recommend but the King has legendary bread bakers working for him so I don't quite know what to think.

I bougjt annother one, whic was verified as 60 degrees Lintner... so closer to what Tony G sells and recommends, but still seems to benefit from an adustment to be more equivalent.

Diastatic Malt Powder by Medley hills farm 1.5 Lbs. in Reusable Container

Amazon.com : Diastatic Malt Powder by Medley hills farm 1.5 Lbs. in Reusable Container - Great Diastatic malt powder for baking Bread, Pizza Crust, Pretzels, Desserts and Milkshakes. Made in the USA - Vegan : Grocery & Gourmet Food

Amazon.com : Diastatic Malt Powder by Medley hills farm 1.5 Lbs. in Reusable Container - Great Diastatic malt powder for baking Bread, Pizza Crust, Pretzels, Desserts and Milkshakes. Made in the USA - Vegan : Grocery & Gourmet Food

www.amazon.com

Had I read his book before buying that diastatic malt, I probably would have just bought what he sells:

Giovanni Italian Specialties by Tony Gemignani – | San Francisco, North Beach, CA

giovannispecialties.com

So the one from Gemignani is 20 Degree lintner ?

 

[brianshaw]

That is correct. It is the one he refers to in The Pizza Bible and its recipes.

 

[surfcast]

Sorry, I should have asked you before what flour you use. He mentions so many different ones.

 

[brianshaw]

Yes, he does! I'm sure he knows what he's talking about and those brands certainly are available. He sells some on his site and others are availabe on the Central Milling site. I think some may only be available wholesale but really didn't research their availablility much.

I "reinterpreted" his knowledge on the multitude of flours to two primary factors: protein % and fineness of grind. (Hopefully I didn't simplify his knowledge to much!) He recommends high protein flour for baking in conventional oven (low temp, relative to a wood fired oven). The King Arthur Bread flour (blue bag) that I already have is in that category. So that's what I used since I'm baking in conventional oven. The finer 00 flour, he says, is best for high temp baking like in a wood fired pizza oven. I tend to agree because my experience has been that 00 flour makes a really nice dough but not always the best pizza. He was the first that I ever heard say that the finer 00 is much better at high temp than at low temp, so when I read that it immedialy resonated as true.

 

[surfcast]

The Malt you mention from Medley Hill farm that is 20-degree lintner also?

 

[brianshaw]

The Malt you mention from Medley Hill farm that is 20-degree lintner also?

Nope, its most likely 60. That’s why I used 1/3 of what Tony’s recipe specified.

All 20 lintner seems to use the phrase “low diastatic”. Unfortunately the products called “diastatic malt powder“ can have vastly different enzymatic power and specification sheets are not available. King Arthur is the only vendor who replied to my enquiry and answered that question about their product. Medley Farms did not reply but from sleuth work I firmly believe I found their source, which states 60.

in the end, I’m not sure if it matters or not. I really think it does but I have a bit of uncertainty because some fairly knowledgeable/authoritative sources seem indiscriminate or uncaring of that level of detail in their recipes or discussions.

 

[surfcast]

You would think they would state that on the package. Thank you Brianshaw you are a lifesaver. I guess I will put in 1/3 of what he is calling for and go with Medly Hill. The one on his site to order it becomes very costly. Do you think the malt changes the pizza very much!

 

[butzy]

A bit off topic..
But I only see the use of diastatic malt powder in American baking books/forums.
I've not seen it used in European baking.

Would anyone know any reason for this? Different flours maybe? Or tradition?

 

[brianshaw]

I really can't speak about European flour but assume that both American and European commercial products follow similar science. This is what I've gleaned from looking onto this for a while. Wheat quality and characteristics vary, not just hard vs soft that impacts protein level, but also growth factors that impact the enzyme levels. Enzymes being important to fermentation, so keeping some minimal and/or consistent level leads to a better quality flour product. There are scientific tests for enzymatic level and millers may make corrections using either malted flour (diastatic) or alpha-amylaze from fungal or bacterial sources. In the US, that is seen on the ingredients disclosure with words like "malted barley or enzymes" or "enzymes". I don't now if Eurpean flours have mandatory disclosures like that or not.

Commercial bakers have used dough conditioners for a long time to facilitate commercial production methods, customer expectations, and shelf storage qualities. About 20 or so years ago I started becoming aware dough conditioners sold to home bakers by companies who sell baking products to home bakers. Most of those dough conditioners repackaged for sale to home bakers do not disclose what is in them or from what producer they are sourced but only state how much to use. Tracing back to the potential commercial sources of dough conditioners, there is a large array of options with different formulas and intents and names. It quickly becomes mind boggling. But they seem to include in their formula things like diatatic malt/enzymes, acids, lecithen, and other unpronouncable ingredients. Similar with just diastatic malt powder... getting specifics is very difficult if not impossible unless one is in the trade.

If you want to do some reading on both the science and commercial practice, this is a good place to start:

Lallemand | The Fresh Loaf

Guys and Gals,Just found interesting guides and newsletters (Baking Update Newsletter) from Lallemand, a well-known ingridients produser and researcher. Hope, this may be useful for our bread-baking community.http://www.lallemand.com/BakerYeastNA/eng/newsletter.shtmThis is a table of...

www.thefreshloaf.com

I've experimented with both fungal alpha-amylase and diastatic malt. It really does change the fermentation characteristics. It supercharges fermentation. Too much, though and it leads to gummy bread. There are many examples of with and without that show product enhancement in the realm of home bread baking. For that reason I continue to experiment but also try to keep the use of those enhancement products at an absolute minimum.

 

[butzy]

Thanks Brian
I mainly bake sourdough and don't use any dough improvers/conditioners etc
I have seen people using vital wheat gluten and or diastatic malt powder on different forums
I figure giving dough time works fine, bearing in mind that I don't need a product with a long shelf life and the end result (bread) also doesnt have to be exactly the same in my situation.
It would actually be interesting to see if I can find a difference by splitting a batch and adding some malted wheat to one part (I brew beer, so got malted barley on hand)

As far as labelling goes: pretty detailed in most of Europe. Pretty appalling in most of Africa. Only info on my flour is weight, brand name and type (household, brown, bread, cake)

 

[brianshaw]

Experimenting is fun! If you use raw malted barley be mindful that the raw material is really potent in diastatic power. The maltsters are really good about product specifications and making them public.

 

[butzy]

I'm thinking of using wheat malt.
I think it's from Crisp
Anyway, I was thinking of less than 1 % (bakers percentage)

 

[brianshaw]

Wheat malt… exactly what I was thinking for a future experiment. Good luck and enjoy!

 

[surfcast]

Does anyone know where to purchase a 12x18 x 1 1/2 inch Sicilian Pizza pan in steel. I found one from winco only 1 inch high and expensive!

Winco SPP-1218 Sicilian Pizza Pan, 12" x 18" x 1", Heavyweight Rolled Steel, Non-stick

Craft thick Sicilian-style pizzas effortlessly with the Winco SPP-1218 Pizza Pan. Non-stick coating ensures even heat distribution.

www.culitrade.com

 

[brianshaw]

Thos always seem hard to find, especially at affordable price. I really don't know anything about this site except I book marked it because it looked interesting. Two potential issues: aluminum and expensive.

Sicilian Style Pizza Pans

Bring the pizza stylings of Italy to your pizzeria or kitchen with our Sicillian-Style Pizza Pan. Its deep depth allows you to easily recreate the thick, soft crust this pizza is known for. Each pan features LloydPans’ stick-resistant PSTK finish that eliminates the need for pre-seasoning and...

lloydpans.com