[phaedrus]

Soft stones are "velvety" and feel great, but they're easy to gouge.  Some would say that teaches you technique in the "harden the F*CK UP!" school of thought.  I dunno, it's horses for coarses.  It's like recommending a Chinese meal to someone who's never tasted Chinese food before.  Hard to know what you'll like, quality aside.

 

[phaedrus]

I can't speak for BDL but if we're spending your money it's gonna be the Choceras./img/vbsmilies/smilies/lol.gif But I can probably say that since I've bought them all for myself. Mine are cut for the EP but I also freehand smaller blades on them. I have every Chocera in the line except the 600, and it's on my to-do list. The Shapton Professional 1k is also a terrific stone. I've never used the Suehiro Rika so I can't comment on that one.

 

[phaedrus]

Regardless of ones general opinions of the Shapton Pro stones, the SP 1k is exceptional.  A very good stone!  Fast cutting, slow dishing with a very nice finish.  Even a rank amatuer can get good results from the 1k.  The 5k...that one, not so much.  Of course, on the EP all your assumptions about which stones are good may be turned on their ear.  When you have near perfect control and every stroke clears the same plane, you really begin to experience a stone in a new way- you're able to distill the essence of what it's able to do.  If you ever get in to the higher level Shaps I think you'll be dumbfounded by what they're able to do on the EP.

The Chocera 400 is one of the most exceptional aratos I've ever used.  The Shap 320 is in the same general league.  If you're considering the EP then the Chocera kit is almost mandatory.  While I certainly haven't tried every stone out there, nothing I've seen can compare overall to the Choceras.  Now this depends on the type of knives you sharpen and the feel you like.  I prefer a softer, muddier stone and that's the Chocera line (with some exceptions).  You may like something else.  There are individual grits where the Chocera might not be the best choice of all the stones out there, but IMO it gets an 85% or better on everthing.  There's nothing it doesn't do at least pretty well, and many things it does superbly.  I don't know of any synthetic that can match the awe-inspiring Chocera 10k.  The EP is a tremendous tool.  If your knives are double bevel, even if asymmetric, this tool will do a great job.

If you're dead set on freehand sharpening and don't care about the price, then instead of popping for the Gesshin right away you might want to wait a few weeks if you can.  There's a new line coming out that's pretty interesting.  I can't really say anything about them at the moment except I wouldn't buy any synthetic until these come to market.

 

[phaedrus]

Holy S BDL you use an EP? Im surprised but I guess that speaks for the product. I watched a couple of their videos and it looks very nice. Now you got me really considering that. What do you think about the wicked edge? Pros/cons of either?

If I was to reprofile the edge would I be using the lower grit 200/300/400 stones? Would it look proper or is there some protocol that the 80/20 knives follow that would hinder the reprofiling or the appearance?

I'm eager, too, to see how BDL is liking the EP. I haven't had a chance yet to try a WEPS (Wicked Edge Precision Sharpener) yet as they've been backordered for awhile. I can make some general comments based on the feedback of others, plus what admittedly is just "thought experiment" on my part.

First off, the WEPS is considerably more expensive than the EP Apex. It costs $250 vs about $155 (depending on vendor) for the Apex. At this price the WEPS doesn't come with a base, either. The cheapest base they sell is $45, with the top option being a $75 granite slab. Of course, you could fashion your own base and save a few bucks.

Next, the WEPS currently ships with diamond abrasive paddles as the standard. IMOHO this isn't the idea sharpening medium for Japanese knives. I will say that Ken will soon be (maybe already is) supplying both Shapton and Choceras cut and mounted for the WEPS. This will make it a very versatile and powerful platform. Yet I must point out that since the WEPS has two paddles, you'll need to buy two of each stone- and that can get expensive. The Chocera 10k runs around $70 each, so you're talking $140 for 2 x 10ks. $100 for 2 x 5k. $80 for 2 x 8k. So on and so forth. Of course, in theory having two paddles will get the job done twice as fast.

The main strength, or weakness, of the WEPS is the clamp system. It clamps your blade by the spine, edge up, allowing both sides of the knife to be worked simultaneously. I can see a couple possible problems with this. First, I wonder if the clamp will mar a blade? If it holds tight enough to keep if from moving it may be tight enough to scratch the spine. Probably not a big deal. The main issue is the the clamp limits the size of the blade you can do without reclamping. IIRC, Clay told me it can accomodate an 11" blade (don't take this as gospel, Clay told me quite a while ago and I may not remember correctly). That is enough for most kitchen blades, but not all. I did a 14" chef's knife for my boss on an EP. I know a guy who did a 38" martial arts sword on an EP! He had to have a helper hold up one end but it worked.

Lastly, the current design of the clamp of the WEPS limits how low the angle can go on most knives. Again, my memory is hazy but I think we're talking about 15 degrees per side. Not bad but I go quite a bit lower than than on some knives. Each side's angle is independently set, and while this will be a great boon in dealing with asymmetry, it's a real disadvantage to not be able to go lower than that. Now I understand that Clay Allison, the creator of the WEPS, is working on a fix that will allow lower angles, but I don't know when it's due out nor whether it can be retrofit to the old machine.

I do know some folks that weren't able to make the EP work that find the WEPS to be very easy to use. Also, it's a great tool for those with limited movement or disability. There's a guy at another forum I frequent that's a paraplegic; he's unable to situate himself in a position to work the EP but has found the WEPS to work for him. Certainly the ability to do both sides at once speeds things up. I've seen microscopic images of the WEPS scratch pattern with Shapton stones and the results are impressive. It will get a knife very sharp.

Now in the EP's favor: It's cheaper to buy, stones are cheaper since you only need one, and it's more versatile (lower angles and the ability to sharpen a knife regardless of length). It folds compactly and requires no base to sit one. There are more stones available for it and it can be made to accomodate larger stones, too. I personally have 7 DMT plates in the 2" x 6" size mounted to blanks for EP use. I've used Japanese natural stones, dressed and mounted myself, that are 1/2" thick and 3" x 5" (W/L). Stone blanks are pretty cheap and are reusable. 1" x 6" is a somewhat standard size of stones; Boride, the supplier of the OEM EP stones, makes a very large assortment of them. I bought a Boride recently that was 1 x 6 and a half inch thick for $8 + shipping.

Both are great tools. It just depends on what you're looking for.