[aubreyfob]

I am currently a highschool student but i want to do some research on a couple colleges before i have to start sending in applications. I am interested in learning about these two different schools. I've researched a little bit and they both seem to have outstanding culinary programs. I would like to know maybe the similarities and differences between the two colleges. Maybe the different costs? I plan on living on campus so having some of that information would be helpful also. what kind of classes do you take and any other information you think would be helpful for me to know before picking a college. Thanks

 

[Iceman]

Whereabouts do you live? The College of DuPage (COD), in Glen Ellyn, has a brand new really over-the-top culinary academy that is absolutely screaming. It kicks the bageebies out of either of your first two(2) choices. The only drawback is that it's +/- 35 miles out of Chicago. They do however, have an attached high-grade restaurant that is run by students I think two(2) nights a week. You would do well to look into it.

http://www.cod.edu/programs/culinary/



College of DuPage - Culinary and Hospitality Management

Waterleaf at College of DuPage

Waterleaf Restaurant and Inn Coming to Glen Ellyn | Zagat

(It's actually there already)

 

[chefedb]

Save money  NONE OF THEM.  12 to 20 thousand $ to graduate and get a job for 12 to 14 an hour? Doesn't make seance to me.

 

[aubreyfob]

i actually live in michigan. i was looking for a college in chicago because i really wanted to get out there and try new things. i love the upbeatness of chicago and the different cultures packed in to one city. @chefedb what would you suggest college wise that would help me out? i really would love to go to college in chicago and really need some help. thanks for your input

 

[petemccracken]

I'm not chefedb, however, I may have an inkling as to what he may be thinking.

Do not spend your money (or borrow) to learn culinary fundamentals! Culinary is a trade, a vocation, and does not require nor, in most cases, benefit from "higher education".

If you truly believe that a college degree will enhance your ability to make a living in the culinary arena, get a degree in Hospitality or Business Management and learn the trade of cooking through apprenticeship, on-the-job training, or at a community college that offers vocational training in culinary.

A Hospitality or Business Management degree opens a host of opportunities if you find that the culinary world is not your "cup of tea". In fact, while you are getting your four year degree, for probably less cost than a two year culinary course, you have an excellent opportunity to earn money working in the culinary world and you'll probably start at about the same level as a culinary school graduate.

 

[aubreyfob]

pete, would you maybe suggest maybe a business management instead of culinary so i could run my own business? im kind of confused. would business managememt be a smart way to go? i really do love cooking so i was excited for the classes so maybe take a couple classes as a side would be beneficial? man, im really glad i found this site before i got myself too many school debts for no reason

 

[Iceman]

I'm not making this post to call out either Pete or EdB. I am however, just saying to check out this program.

College of DuPage - Culinary and Hospitality Management

Everyone has a plan, direction and opinion. You should explore all possibilities before you chose yours.

 

[petemccracken]

IMHO, degree(s) are extremely useful when working for someone else, education is useful to you!

If your goal is to own a business, you need a working knowledge of:

• Business finance
• Business law
• Basic accounting
• Personnel management
• Basic marketing
• Basic advertising
• Business mathematics
• and the skills necessary to manage your desired business

A business management degree will provide you with the opportunity to learn the above. A Hospitality degree will focus the above to the hospitality industry rather than a general knowledge. With a degree, you can work in a wide variety of management opportunities and even switch careers when the opportunity arises or you desire to do so.

Cooking, IMHO, is a trade. And a large majority of cases you WILL be working for someone else for wages. A great many cooking skills can be learned on your own, by working as an apprentice, by simply working in a restaurant (OJT), at a local community college that offers culinary training, or at a private culinary school. As you go through the list, the $$$ keeps increasing /img/vbsmilies/smilies/crazy.gif. You will start at the bottom, this is a trade where experience is valuable! Regardless as to how you learn the basics, you will start at minimum wage or slightly better. How fast you advance is highly dependent on you and your skills. Paying for learning the trade may speed up your advancement but it will not guarantee it.

I would not consider becoming obligated for a student loan to learn a trade. I would consider a student loan to obtain a four year college degree in a profession.

Learning a trade is an excellent safety net for pursuing a profession.

 

[aubreyfob]

this helped a lot! thanks you so much for your help i will probably be saving a lot more money because of you much appreciation goes out to you for helping me with this. i had no idea where to start with this. everything is kind of overwhelming with all the choices to make. this will definilty help me when i make plans for college!

 

[chefedb]

If you visiy some of these private culinary schools, you will be shown around by salespeople who in many cases work on salary plus commission. They will paint visions of sugarplums and fairy tales in your head. They will never tell you about the other side of the business. The heat that you work in , the stress, work holidays, 50 to 70 hours a week in some cases, extremely early am or very late pm kours Bad or no medical or any benefits for that matter..

eA salary far below what is deemed norm in other industries.(upon graduation a NYC sanitation worker  makes more and far better benefits) no college, high school eqiv. diploma only.  Most important saddled with a long term student loan which you have to pay back while getting wages that can just about carry you on a weekly basis. Get a business degree and take some night school adult only culinary courses. Pete and I have been around a long time, seen most all and are only trying to help you..Good Luck in your future endeavors, EDB

 

[Iceman]

The College of DuPage is not a private, looking only for your tuition, factory-style institute. Since its inception in 1967, College of DuPage has matured into something very special. It's a community college with far-reaching impact. It's a Community College; one of the finest in the country for whatever program students choose to follow. I'm pretty much sick of all the bad-mouthing of culinary schools here in this forum. On-the-job training is an important part of the culinary world, but so is knowing things. Knowing the "why", "how come" and "because" parts of our business doesn't come from OTJ training. The absolute biggest percentage of guys working in top kitchens don't really have any clue about the science of what they are doing. They are machines, working fast and plating dishes from sheer repetition, not because they are chefs.

 

[petemccracken]

My apologies to all if I come across as "bad mouthing culinary schools", that is not my intent and, if that is the way my comments are interpreted, it is a failure on my part for inadequate communication skills.

Education is a tool to achieve life goals, I think that is a reasonable statement that almost all can agree to. The choice of the educational path with the greatest opportunity for success is the one that prepares one for the goals they desire.

From my perspective, a critical step is defining one's desired goals and, regardless of the trade or profession, the first decision is whether one desires to be a worker or a manager. Workers accomplish the task(s) set before them, managers determine the task(s) for the workers to accomplish.

If the former, identify the essential skills necessary and learn the basics in the least expensive manner possible. This can be accomplished in a number of ways. In order of expected cost, I see these avenues:

• OJT-on job training: get an entry level job at a business that does what you want to do and get paid to keep your eyes open, mouth shut, and learn by following directions. Basic skill set determined by the business owner/manager, may not be all inclusive. Prepares one to advance in that business and, hopefully, be trained rather rapidly in some other business in that industry. One excellent avenue, IMHO, happens to be the military, regardless as to branch.
• Apprenticeship: Very similar to OJT, though the "pay" may not be all in $$ but in training. More difficult to find a "master" that is willing to take on an apprentice and training may be focused on what the "master" knows and understands. Basic skill set determined by the "master", will include only what the "master" deems important. Excellent training to advance in that specific business, may provide the background for training in another business.
• Trade school, public or private: Skill set more formalized and based on industry rather than specific business. Some fundamental "theory" may be included to clarify need for certain skills, may be free but probably fairly low cost. Prepares one to enter almost any business in that particular industry ready for training in the specifics of that business.

All three of the above are inexpensive and may actually put money in one's pocket. If after a few years, one's goals change, it is relatively easy to focus on an alternative career path while maintaining a skill set to survive. All three also provide a foundation to advance from a "worker" to a "manager" in that particular industry.

For those setting their goal in the direction of becoming a "manager", i.e. owner/operator or middle manager, and speeding up the transition from or bypassing the "worker" stage, the alternatives include:

• Self study: Learning what the necessary management skills are from experience and finding ways to obtain those skills by reading, attending classes, practice, etc. Fairly low cost but requires self-motivation and an ability to figure out what knowledge is important.
• Journeyman Trade school: primarily private though some public options exist. Advanced skill set, fairly rigid including not only production skills but incorporating essential management skills. Probably includes some general education as well. Can become expensive and is generally essential to gain entry into the corporate (HR) world.
• College or university: public and private, incorporating broad spectrum of general and specific education, flexible (to a degree), applicable to a wide variety of employment opportunities, can be very expensive.

Is any one approach the BEST? Absolutely not! The choice is an individual one. And a significant part of that choice paying or taking out loans is financial and economic.

Does one wish to "buy" a career by paying money or taking out a loan to be paid back from future earning earnings?

Are there sufficient resources available to "live" while pursuing your career goals?

Oh, BTW, culinary schools are not "evil", they just have their own goals that may not be the same as the goals of the student. If one makes an informed choice, more power to them.

 

[chefedb]

Sorry you feel offended. You are entitled to your thoughts and opinions as I am entitled to mine. Mine is based on being there and  have done it   . I just can't seem to comprehend how some of these schools charge these kids what they do.

   Having been a licensed Culinary Arts Instructor in the NYC Voc. school system for years , probably even before you were born,and having taugt in the private school sector

     . I graduated a 2 year comm. college in the  early 60s .. Served an apprenticship  in Europe.

 I have seen youngsters come out of some of the private schools so much in debt  because of outstanding student  loans  that it will take them years to pay them off. The apprentice program in my opinion is still the best . A good general education and working in a top shelf kitchen under a good chef and staff. I also learned how , why and  because from the chefs I worked under.

     I was told many times by graduates that they learned more in 1 month in a restaurant or hotel then they did in a school for a semester, and instead of paying, they were paid.. God knows how many students I saw drop out of culinary arts classes after mom and pop paid for them with hard earned money. I used to tell my students parents dont send him to culinary school till he or she works in trade for a year first . This way they would find out if this  is what they really like and would want to invest both the rest of their lives  and money to.  The last thing to note is private culinary arts institutions are a profit oriented business as well as schools.

 

[Iceman]

College of DuPage is a COMMUNITY COLLEGE. They charge $132 per credit hour.

It's the same tuition cost for any of these programs:

Accounting, Advertising, Design and Illustration (Graphic Design), Air Conditioning (HVAC), Anthropology, Architecture, Art, Automotive Service Technology, Baking and Pastry Arts, Biology, Biotechnology, Botany (Biology), Business, Chemistry, Clinical Laboratory Science, Computer Information Systems, Computer Internetworking Technologies, Construction Management, Cosmetology, Criminal Justice, Culinary Arts, Dental Hygiene, Diagnostic Medical Imaging, Computed Tomography (CT), Nuclear Medicine, Radiography, Advanced Sonography (DMIS), Vascular Sonography (DMIV) , Associate Sonography, Early Childhood, Education and Care, Earth Science, Economics, Electro-Mechanical Technology, Electronics Technology, Emergency Medical Technician, Engineering, Engineering Technology, English, Facility Management, Fashion Merchandising and Design, Fire Science, Geography, Graphic Arts Technology, Graphic Design, Health Information Technology, Health Sciences, History, Horticulture, Hospitality Management, Human Services, Humanities, Interior Design, Journalism and Mass Communication, Languages, Library and Information Technology, Long-Term Care Administration, Mammography, Manufacturing Technology Management, Marketing, Mathematics, Medical Assistant, Motion Picture/Television, Music, Non-Invasive EKG, Nursing Department , Associate Degree Nursing (ADN), Nursing (Pre-BSN), Advanced Placement into the ADN program, Certified Nursing Assistant (CNA), Practical Nursing Program, Office Technology Information, Paralegal Studies, Paramedic, Philosophy, Phlebotomy/EKG, Photography, Physical Education, Physical Therapist Assistant, Physician Office Coding and Billing, Physics, Political Science, Pre-Dentistry, Pre-Medicine, Pre-Pharmacy, Pre-Physical Therapy, Pre-Veterinary, Psychology, Radiation Therapy, Real Estate, Religious Studies, Respiratory Care, Restaurant Management, Social Science/Sociology, Speech Communication, Speech Language Pathology Assistant, Surgical Technology, Teacher Preparation, Theater, Travel, Tourism and Event Planning, Welding, Zoology (Biology)

 

[chefedb]

Very good courses, typical of most community colleges in other states, but note in my answers I talk about  PRIVATE  FOR PROFIT SCHOOLS  not community or public funded.

 

[aubreyfob]

thanks for the input. i wilk definitly have to think about the alternative choices for learning the trade. It will help knowing i have alternative options. If theres anything else i should know before choosing what I should do for my education,please let me know

 

[foodpump]

Aubreyfob,

Ther is a lot of truth in all of the previous posts.  C.C.'s are a much better choice, and cooking is a trade.

I think the best thing for you is to get to work.  Find a job in a restauant washing dishes or plating salads.  This won't cost you one dime, and there is no pressure to sign on the dotted line. If you like the work, great!  If you don't, it still hasn't cost you dime to find out that a ktichen life isn't for you.

Hope this helps 

 

[measured voice]

My Advise- be skeptical in general!

Any comments made are coming to people with their own bias. The truth is: There are advantages to either.

Not going to school will save you money in the short term. Is it possible to find good work in the field without it? Sure. I've had plenty of friends who have. What you might run into down the road is: You've spent 2 years working at Restaraunt X Under Chef So-and-so. If they're known, it's great. If whomever you try to interview with doesn't recognize that, you might get stuck (not getting a call back to interview). Whether or not a degree or certain credentials would get you a better job, it's unclear, but it might be a matter of getting a foot in the door.

When it comes to looking at colleges: There are alot of differences between schools (even with Le Cordon Bleu, there are alot of differences between the campuses). They do tend to be expensive. College in general is an investment. What you need to consider is: Is the actual training beneficial? Are there networking & good career opportunities through the school? There's a reason why so many people are going to college. What it comes down to is what you feel would benefit you most for competing against others in the field!

One thing I saw I would want to correct- For Accredited Private Colleges, it is ILLEGAL for comissions to be made on students. Recent legislation was passed that took that out of the equation. However, any college needs students to attend in order to stay a college, so they often focus on the benefits of attending.

Don't listen to strangers on the online posting boards. Everyone has there own reasons for replying. Whether they've tried school, loved it and have done well (there are many examples); tried school burnt out & have nothing but debt to show for it; or didn't go to school & regret being behind the curve.

Do your research- don't let other people make your decision for you.

 

[petemccracken]

Do your research- don't let other people make your decision for you.

Absolutely concur!

 

[foodpump]

Don't listen to strangers on the online posting boards. Everyone has there own reasons for replying.

Do your research- don't let other people make your decision for you.

What's your reason?